Overbreaked Front - Contributed to Accident - Underbrake it now? - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-15-2017, 2:08 AM Thread Starter
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Overbreaked Front - Contributed to Accident - Underbrake it now?

Hi,
After doing the fork seals last year I decided to work on the brakes.
I got a new disc from ebay, some decent pads, and a braided line.
However, the braking is now so good, I think it actually helped me crash last year!

Should I just remove the braided hose?

Is this because I got a non standard wavy ebay disc?

Im using Goldfren HH Pads.

And yes... I am seriously considering going back to riding school to learn how to apply the brakes properly.

Still, is there such as think as 'over braked' front end? I guess if there wasnt we would see 6 pot calipers and twin discs on mopeds...

Thanks all for your views, which I am dreading already!

Doc
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-15-2017, 2:49 AM
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Well, unless the brakes are locking up instantly when applied, it sounds like you need to make some time for regular emergency braking practice. Also, make sure your front tire is not old and hardened. If it is; change it.

Clean car parks are good for this:

Practice applying your brakes at various speeds and improving your stopping time. Find out where the limits of grip are for your front tire, and as you improve, then you will be able to brake to the point of losing grip, release the brake and re-apply.


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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-15-2017, 3:04 AM Thread Starter
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Well, unless the brakes are locking up instantly when applied, it sounds like you need to make some time for regular emergency braking practice. Also, make sure your front tire is not old and hardened. If it is; change it.

Clean car parks are good for this:

Practice applying your brakes at various speeds and improving your stopping time. Find out where the limits of grip are for your front tire, and as you improve, then you will be able to brake to the point of losing grip, release the brake and re-apply.
I knew I would get some good advice here! The tyre has seen better days. It was borderline but definitely legal.

I was fairly sure that the disc has beded in well enough at the time. It does lock up quite easily but I have used the brake in anger on a straight line and it has been effective if a little noise (rubbing noise not grinding noise). All the pistons and seals in the caliper replaced at the time, I will need to clean all that up again when I strip it again.

I do feel that the forks are soft despite replacing seals and oil. Springs are in spec length wise. I would like to brace the forks and harden them up a little.

Do you have any advice and thanks for the reply.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-15-2017, 4:33 AM
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Something on the front suspension. http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...ont_Suspension Bear in mind I'm not familiar with the differences between an ER500 and an EX500.

2006 Ninja500R Purchased new July 2006, 0 miles. Miles as of January 2017 88652. It is a GO bike, not a SHOW bike.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-15-2017, 10:57 AM
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I agree with practicing braking. All motorcyclists should do this because proper brake technique is not intuitive. Our instinct is to mash the brakes hard when confronted with an emergency, but sudden, hard application of the brake will lock up the tires.

The front brake carries nearly all the braking load on a motorcycle, and the front tire is capable of handling a surprising amount of braking force, but only if you're pointed straight ahead, the tire is in good condition, the road surface isn't contaminated (sand, oil, even paint will reduce traction significantly), and you load the tire first. What that means is, the more weight that gets transferred to the front tire, the more braking force it can handle, and if you gradually squeeze the lever, more and more weight gets transferred to the front tire.
Proper technique requires gradually squeezing the lever over the course of about one second.

So, when you practice your braking, get up to, say 20 mph then start braking. Squeeze the lever gradually as you say aloud "One thousand one". As you finish saying that you be just getting to full braking force. Ignore the rear brake for this exercise, because, it needs less and less force applied as the weight transfers front. Squeezing the front brake more and more while applying the rear brake less and less requires focus that's beyond me, and just about anybody else, I would imagine. I get around this by just gently dragging the rear brake while stopping. Works for me. Once you get a feel for how the bike can stop from 20 mph (hint, surprisingly quickly) you can increase the speed a little at a time.
Like I said, everyone should do this, at least at the beginning of riding season each year, but preferably more than that, so proper braking becomes automatic, because you won't be able to think about this when faced with an emergency. It has to become habit.

Last edited by K-woppa; 2-15-2017 at 10:59 AM.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-15-2017, 11:20 AM
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All the above is nice but this is the part that matters.

," and you load the tire first."


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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-15-2017, 11:23 AM
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Red face

BTW one of the biggest attributes to my FOGBONES design is they improve braking by increasing weight shift to the front to help the tire grip better under braking force.

Blatant spam I know sorry

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-16-2017, 3:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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BTW one of the biggest attributes to my FOGBONES design is they improve braking by increasing weight shift to the front to help the tire grip better under braking force.

Blatant spam I know sorry

FOG
All good advice, i think as we get older (having ridden for years) we get pigheaded about our ability. Myself at least, I know how to ride a bike (until for that split second I forget).

Quoted the Fogbones above, as a new member Im not sure what this is...

The crash has given me quite a scare, not because the crash itself was bad but because I nearly lost my kneecap to the tarmac.

Id be buggered without one of those.

When its a rolling chassis again I will check the brakes and see if I can get the forks braced. Im going to start looking at stiffer springs.

As a side note, My swingarm holds a lot of rusty water. I was considering alternative swingarm and forks off a more modern motorcycle.

Can anyone point me to a thread where this has been done?
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-17-2017, 2:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ER500RRSP View Post
Hi,
After doing the fork seals last year I decided to work on the brakes.
I got a new disc from ebay, some decent pads, and a braided line.
However, the braking is now so good, I think it actually helped me crash last year!

Should I just remove the braided hose?

Is this because I got a non standard wavy ebay disc?

Im using Goldfren HH Pads.

And yes... I am seriously considering going back to riding school to learn how to apply the brakes properly.

Still, is there such as think as 'over braked' front end? I guess if there wasnt we would see 6 pot calipers and twin discs on mopeds...

Thanks all for your views, which I am dreading already!

Doc
Don't know your parts from fleabay but your brakes being "too good".
Not even sure what that means.

You seemed to compare "improved" braking in comparison to a drum brake bike or a "training bike 250cc"
The EX does quite well on its own. The fact you jumped to a different line changed the feel and it was touch-ier tells me you weren't ready for an upgrade in brakes.
It literally out braked your a**.
And no offense, maybe you need a nanny like ABS.
Sorry but the truth hurts.

O_E_M
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