Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750 - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
 
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-13-2011, 3:39 AM Thread Starter
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Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

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I have been shopping for a new helmet forever. I narrowed it down, tried to find the one I liked(AGV k3) in a store to try on, couldn't do that, got frustrated, ordered another helmet(AGV s4) on huge salehttp://www.agv.com/dyn_prodlist.php?k=69234, wasn't happy with the fit, and the visor is damaged. May pass that one on to my BF if I can get the visor replaced.... Went back to original plan, comparing the k3 to the Bell Vortex, get convinced that Snell is a marketing ploy and that I should look for ECE 2205, none of the helmets I've looked at so far are so certified. I go into a local dealership, they don't have the Bell I wanted to see but they do have the Scorpion EXO 500. I try that on (right in my price range) fit is good, not so sure about the sun visor.... It's DOT and ECE! Get online and look it up, they have another helmet in the same price range without the sun visor, their website says DOT and Snell. It's fiberglass and kevlar (that's better Right?!?!?) The SHARPhttp://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsrati...orpion-exo-700 website says it is ECE...Should I trust the manufacturer or the British Government? Then just to complicate things further, the EXO 750, is a price jump but seems to be the same helmet!? Scorpion is saying it's DOT and ECE, I'm trying to understand the price difference. I can't find many reviews of the 750, it's not been entered into the gear wiki and webbikeworld.com doesn't have it....
So, if anyone is still with me, what's your take on the various standards? Which helmet would YOU buy? And if you have a Scorpion, what do you think?
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-13-2011, 3:54 AM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

I've got an older Scorpion Exo 400 and I like it quite a bit. It can be noisy at speed, but the 700 isn't as I've ridden with that one as well.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-13-2011, 11:09 AM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

I doubt the Exo700 is ECE 2205...It's an older design about 4 to 5 years I believe(Still a Good helmet...)...Exo 500 is the latest design(Exo 500 is the Exo 1000 done right)...with the Exo 750 between a year to 2...

I have the Exo 1000...not a bad helmet...but It is damn heavy...I wouldn't buy an Exo-1000 unless you can get it at clearance prices $100-150...I would not hesitate to buy any of the 3 helmets...with my preference being Exo 750, then 500...and last but not least 700...

Checking their WebSite...
  • Exo 700: Snell/DOT Certified(think its Snell 2005)
  • Exo 750: DOT and ECE 22.05 Certified
  • Exo 500: ECE 22.05/DOT Certified

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-13-2011, 1:45 PM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

The 400 does not have a removeable liner and has an ABS shell

the 700, which I owned, is slightly ligher but not a lightweight helmet, with a composite shell and removable liner - it is Snell M2005 and DOT approved. It does not have enough impact absorption to meed Snell M2010 or ECE 22.05

The 750 is a more recent helmet than the 700 and is ECE 22.05 - better impact absorption than Snell M2005. I believe it also has inflatable cheek pads that can give you a more custom fit

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcyc...le-helmets.htm

The Sharp website is for helmets sold in the UK. The UK Scorpion EXO-700 a different helmet than the US/Can EXO-700 version. All European riders have to by law wear ECE 22.05 helmets. A helmet designed to Snell M2005 cannot meet the ECE 22.05 requirements so helmet manufacturers had to build different helmets for different markets. The new Snell M2010 standard is much more like the ECE 22.05 standard so this should put and end to the practice.

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-13-2011, 2:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

Customer service rep at Scorpion got back to me with this

"Ms.

The EXO-700 is in Europe only ECE, the ones sold in the US are SNELL.
Most of our helmets going forward will be ECE/DOT, the EXO-750 and 700
have a bit of a different shape then the EXO-500. I hope this answers
your questions.

Thank you.

Glen West
ScorpionUSA.com
949-768-5517"

Not having seen the 700-750 in person I still can't see the difference in the pictures online. I guess my question now is Is fiberglass kevlar really better than polycarbonate? And what about that sun visor? I thought it would be so cool, but don't really like it in person.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-13-2011, 6:23 PM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

I tried on the 500 and did really like the fit. It was much much better then the 1000. I just say a new model EX0-1100 on newenough. Looks like another upgrade from the EX0-1000. I have not read anything on this.

I would avoid the Snell M2005 helmets. Older standard, not as protective. Go with either the 500 or the 750 if those are your two choices.

BTW if you give the inner visor a try, you will LOVE it.

Also, I was talking to a helmet guy at a shop when I was looking for Shark helmets (not currently imported to the states anymore ) He made a comment about the AGV S4 that he had show up not being properly certified as promised when he got them, and sent his whole shippment back to the distributor as he wasn't happy with the product enough to sell it. So I think AGV has some problems beyond what you experienced.

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-13-2011, 8:48 PM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

I much prefer carrying a tinted visor to the inner visors on helmets. Better sun protection, less visual distortion, and less helmet weight.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-13-2011, 9:28 PM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrocket
I tried on the 500 and did really like the fit. It was much much better then the 1000. I just say a new model EX0-1100 on newenough. Looks like another upgrade from the EX0-1000. I have not read anything on this.

I would avoid the Snell M2005 helmets. Older standard, not as protective. Go with either the 500 or the 750 if those are your two choices.

BTW if you give the inner visor a try, you will LOVE it.

Also, I was talking to a helmet guy at a shop when I was looking for Shark helmets (not currently imported to the states anymore ) He made a comment about the AGV S4 that he had show up not being properly certified as promised when he got them, and sent his whole shippment back to the distributor as he wasn't happy with the product enough to sell it. So I think AGV has some problems beyond what you experienced.
I'm not sure you can claim that the newer standard is more protective. My understanding is that the newer standard makes it easier for the helmet to meet snell and other standards with one design.

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-13-2011, 9:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

I think/hope/pray that this will be the final step, I just ordered a Scorpion exo 750 off amazon ($159 for the "Vintage" white and red graphic, !100 off!!) The retailer I bought the s4 from is replacing the shield free of charge (my boyfriend will be keeping it) Apparently all AGV helmets are ECE, but they don't market that in the US. I had a long twitter conversation with @HellForLeather https://twitter.com/#!/HellForLeather about helmets, they recommended AGV. But no IRL stores have the K3 in stock. The Scorpion at that price is the same as the AGV, I have a really hard time paying retail for anything, so there you go. A better helmet for the same money, or at least a fiberglass/Kevlar helmet for thermoplastic price. I'll be back with reviews of this helmet as soon as I get my hands on it. ) Thanks all for your opinions and advice.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-13-2011, 11:07 PM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

I have an EXO 700 and while I don't have many to compare it to, I really like it. It's snug and comfortable (although I do get a bit of a hot-spot after several hours on my forehead). It also reduces noise quite a bit, so combined with ear plugs the noise does not bother me. The really nice thing is that even after two season it still fits as if it was new - the padding did not pack out yet. So the fit is still very nice.

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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-14-2011, 11:11 AM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

Quote:
Originally Posted by in4mation
I'm not sure you can claim that the newer standard is more protective. My understanding is that the newer standard makes it easier for the helmet to meet snell and other standards with one design.
Actually I can claim that. Do some research. Here is an older article from before the M2010 standard was published and used by Snell. http://www.westcoastweasels.com/arch...he_Lid_Off.pdf

The Cliff notes From another rider "Without going into too much detail, the argument was that Snell allowed a maximum 300g force to the noggin from the inside padding while placing too much emphasis on a stronger fiberglass shell and impact with a sharp object. Additionally, Snell made no adjustment for lighter head weights in smaller helmets so that the inside padding which would crush to 300g with a large heavy head would be too "hard" for a small head and potentially dangerous to women and children because the pad wouldn't compress as much - making the g force even greater to small heads.

Despite arguing that they were doing it right following the 2005 article, Snell adopted the m2010 standard last year which exactly now takes into consideration head weigh/size and lowers the acceptable force to 245-285g's depending on size. Thus, the Snell m2010 standard is more akin to the ECE 22-05 and requires a softer inside noggin bang in order to pass.

Even Snell's announcement recognizes that the m2010 in incompatible with its old m2005 standard and will stop testing/issuing m2005 in June 2011."

So I highly recommend anyone buying a new lid to go for the M2010 standard over the M2005 if they must have a Snell rated helmet.

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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-14-2011, 11:41 AM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrocket
Quote:
Originally Posted by in4mation
I'm not sure you can claim that the newer standard is more protective. My understanding is that the newer standard makes it easier for the helmet to meet snell and other standards with one design.
Actually I can claim that. Do some research. Here is an older article from before the M2010 standard was published and used by Snell. http://www.westcoastweasels.com/arch...he_Lid_Off.pdf

The Cliff notes From another rider "Without going into too much detail, the argument was that Snell allowed a maximum 300g force to the noggin from the inside padding while placing too much emphasis on a stronger fiberglass shell and impact with a sharp object. Additionally, Snell made no adjustment for lighter head weights in smaller helmets so that the inside padding which would crush to 300g with a large heavy head would be too "hard" for a small head and potentially dangerous to women and children because the pad wouldn't compress as much - making the g force even greater to small heads.

Despite arguing that they were doing it right following the 2005 article, Snell adopted the m2010 standard last year which exactly now takes into consideration head weigh/size and lowers the acceptable force to 245-285g's depending on size. Thus, the Snell m2010 standard is more akin to the ECE 22-05 and requires a softer inside noggin bang in order to pass.

Even Snell's announcement recognizes that the m2010 in incompatible with its old m2005 standard and will stop testing/issuing m2005 in June 2011."

So I highly recommend anyone buying a new lid to go for the M2010 standard over the M2005 if they must have a Snell rated helmet.
but then that says DOT is missing some key testing...because they all PASS'd DOT. Either DOT is enough or DOT is not enough...M2005 is just a subset of DOT...

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-14-2011, 3:00 PM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

Quote:
Originally Posted by luco.vico
I have an EXO 700 and while I don't have many to compare it to, I really like it. It's snug and comfortable (although I do get a bit of a hot-spot after several hours on my forehead). It also reduces noise quite a bit, so combined with ear plugs the noise does not bother me. The really nice thing is that even after two season it still fits as if it was new - the padding did not pack out yet. So the fit is still very nice.
The EXO-700 fits an oval head the best. Luco sounds like you have a long oval head like I do. "Long oval" means proportionally longer than average from front to back but narrower than average in the side to side. Arai is the only company to make helmets specifically designed to fit this head shape - the Profile and the Signet-Q models. You won't find a better helmet for your head IMO. They also sell a huge selection of cheek pads and helmet liners in varying thicknesses for even more adaptability.

My Profile fits soooo much better than any other helmet I've tried it allow me to go down 1 size and still not be tight front to back. Arai are pricy but you can sometimes find last year's graphics on sale on EBay at a large discount.

Queenieliz - hope you will post your opinions on the EXO-750 after you have a chance to review it as I don't think anyone has yet done a review of it yet. http://tinyurl.com/ex500reviews

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-17-2011, 5:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

"He made a comment about the AGV S4 that he had show up not being properly certified as promised when he got them, and sent his whole shippment back to the distributor as he wasn't happy with the product enough to sell it. So I think AGV has some problems beyond what you experienced."

It seems to me that this is just a marketing issue, I received this email from AGV:

"Hi,
In the U.S., the K3 helmet is not ECE rated. It is DOT, which is required
for sale in the U.S.

Best regards,


First Name: Elizabeth
Issue: Product Questions

Comment: Hello, I am interested in your K3 helmet, but I can not find an
authoritative statement as to which world standards it is certified to. I
am looking for a helmet that meets ECE 22.05, I have been told your helmet
does, but your website doesn\'t say so. Any information you could provide
me with would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You,
Liz Keitz"

Both webbikeworld.com(http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/motor...helmet/agv-k3/) and SHARP (http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/agv-k-3) list the AGV helmet I was interested in as being ECE, but it seems AGV isn't using that information in it's sales efforts in the US, although the S-4 which I ordered does have the British Standards Institute label. I think it's just the confusion of having so many standards to comply with. A world wide standard would be nice, but after having read through some of the UN's ECE 22.05 requirements(http://live.unece.org/trans/main/wp2...regs21-40.html, regulation number 22) and testing it seems to be much more in depth than DOT, SNELL or even the SHARP(which is a useful secondary rating, not a legal requirement)
I just feel lucky that I didn't have to contend with comparing the Japanese and Australian standards as well....
As soon as my helmet arrives I will be happy to add my review.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-19-2011, 1:30 PM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrocket
Quote:
Originally Posted by in4mation
I'm not sure you can claim that the newer standard is more protective. My understanding is that the newer standard makes it easier for the helmet to meet snell and other standards with one design.
Actually I can claim that. Do some research. Here is an older article from before the M2010 standard was published and used by Snell. http://www.westcoastweasels.com/arch...he_Lid_Off.pdf

The Cliff notes From another rider "Without going into too much detail, the argument was that Snell allowed a maximum 300g force to the noggin from the inside padding while placing too much emphasis on a stronger fiberglass shell and impact with a sharp object. Additionally, Snell made no adjustment for lighter head weights in smaller helmets so that the inside padding which would crush to 300g with a large heavy head would be too "hard" for a small head and potentially dangerous to women and children because the pad wouldn't compress as much - making the g force even greater to small heads.

Despite arguing that they were doing it right following the 2005 article, Snell adopted the m2010 standard last year which exactly now takes into consideration head weigh/size and lowers the acceptable force to 245-285g's depending on size. Thus, the Snell m2010 standard is more akin to the ECE 22-05 and requires a softer inside noggin bang in order to pass.

Even Snell's announcement recognizes that the m2010 in incompatible with its old m2005 standard and will stop testing/issuing m2005 in June 2011."

So I highly recommend anyone buying a new lid to go for the M2010 standard over the M2005 if they must have a Snell rated helmet.
I actually have done research on it. Read several articles. I'm going to guess that many of use don't fall into the group with small heads so that adjustment is irrelevant.

From WebBikeWorld.

Snell 2010 Standard

Quote:
The chief virtue of the Snell M2010 standard is that it will enable a “world helmet” which will provide Snell levels of protection to riders in Europe as well as in North America.

For street riders in North America, the differences between M2010 and M2005 should be of little significance. M2010 does not exceed M2005 but it does demand comparable protection. But for street riders in Europe, M2010 may make a considerable difference.

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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-21-2011, 11:57 AM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

While I love webbikeworld, they are taking a very pro Snell stance on the topic. Much of the article you linked reads very close to a reworded Snell Press release.

The bottom line for me is, many top scientiest, including Snells previous foundation director Dr. Jim Newman, an actual rocket scientist and highly respected head-impact expert, have been critical of the M2005 standard. "we've come to the realization that people falling off motorcycles hardly ever, ever hit their head in the same place twice. So we have helmets that are designed to withstand two hits at the same site. But in doing so, we have severely, severely compromised their ability to take one hit and absorb energy properly."

Even the famous Dr. Hurt had issue with the M2005 standard. "We've got people that we've replicated helmet [impacts] on that took 250, 230 Gs [in their accidents]. And they've got a diffuse injury they're not gonna get rid of. The helmet has a good whack on it, but so what? If they'd had a softer helmet they'd have been better off."

Instead of using the scientifically availible data that was published by 2005 and fixing the M2005 standard Snell went into denial and tried to justify a inferior standard. I'm sorry but anyone that is willing to put my head at more risk because they are afraid of potential blow back from manufactures and consumers by admiting they were doing it wrong, is not someone I am going to trust down the road.

See what makes the M2005 standard so poor is the allowable forces trasmitted to the head. 300Gs, Whichs is more then any other standard back in 2005. Still instead of saying they were doing it wrong with the M2005 standard when the published the M2010, they say the only real change to the testing is the head forms for M2010. This is where webbikeworld is very pro snell with the article you publish. Notice how the M2010 article shows lower forces allowable, they are down to 275G at the max to 243G based on the head form used. That is a 25G to 57G change in allowable force, THAT IS THE BIG DIFFERENCE in the M2005 and the M2010. The spin that webbikeworld puts on the article doesn't make a big deal of this instead discussing with more weight the headforms they use for smaller heads. That is a 8% reduction of force allowable. They had the data that showed they should have switched the standard back in 2005 but they let business politics stop them. I don't think 4 years is an acceptable time if you know you have a problem with your testing to fix it. Then sweeping it under the rug? Snells reputation is in the crapper as far as I am concerned.

Then throw the fact that Snell has pretty much become a marking sticker. Once again, directly quoted from Snells previous director. Dr. Newman "The Snell sticker,has become a marketing gimmick. By spending 60 cents [paid to the Snell foundation], a manufacturer puts that sticker in his helmet and he can increase the price by $30 or $40. Or even $60 or $100."

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 9-21-2011, 4:25 PM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

I was looking in the Scorpion catalog at work on Monday. The description given there for the construction of the EXO-400 shell was that it was a "Polycarbonate Composite" which would mean that is not simply polycarbonate. I have one, and for what it's worth it's a very comfortable helmet. Bang is high for not very much buck. I've had a few issues with mine and it's going back to Scorpion for repairs. Their customer service is top notch. I'll very likely be picking up an EXO-700 on the first. I'm getting one for a song at work so I can't pass it up. It's not like I need one, but it's a nice helmet also. I tried it on yesterday and it fits just like the 400. As for the EXO500 I haven't tried one on yet. I do know the EXO1000 has been replaced by the EXO1100 which looks like it's a better helmet. There is a new design that I really like too:

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-10-2011, 1:18 PM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apriliarider
I was looking in the Scorpion catalog at work on Monday. The description given there for the construction of the EXO-400 shell was that it was a "Polycarbonate Composite" which would mean that is not simply polycarbonate. I have one, and for what it's worth it's a very comfortable helmet. Bang is high for not very much buck. I've had a few issues with mine and it's going back to Scorpion for repairs. Their customer service is top notch. I'll very likely be picking up an EXO-700 on the first. I'm getting one for a song at work so I can't pass it up. It's not like I need one, but it's a nice helmet also. I tried it on yesterday and it fits just like the 400. As for the EXO500 I haven't tried one on yet. I do know the EXO1000 has been replaced by the EXO1100 which looks like it's a better helmet. There is a new design that I really like too:
I have an exo 1000 and if you can find one around the helmet is great, a little noisy when the vents are opened, but my ninja 500 has D&D's on it and you can barely hear them when riding, I love my helmet, the features are top notch and it's snell and dot certified.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 1-3-2012, 1:07 AM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

I own a 1100. It's the only one that will fit my round head. The 700s won't fit without pressure points. I went for this over the Shoei RF 1100 cause of price and value but still premium feel. It's a lighter helmet than the 1000 and the other ones because it's ECE not SNELL.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 1-3-2012, 8:26 AM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

No one prob remembers, but a couple of years ago I went down at about 35 mph to 40 mph. I walked away with almost no injuries. My EXO 500 held up amazing. I literally had the snot knocked out of me and my head dragged along the pavement. I walked away with no head trama, only some road rash from jeans and a crappy jacket. Don't ever let someone tell you a helmet must have a high sticker price to be safe

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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 1-3-2012, 9:12 AM
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Re: Scorpion EXO 500 vs. EXO 700 vs. EXO 750

I understand the argument against the M2005 standard. But I've got an EXO-700, it seems to fit ok. I picked up some cheekpads for the next size up because they were squeezing my cheeks and temples enough to give me a headache if worn for a few hrs. The price was right and it's way more protective than an openface or no helmet.
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