Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Building a High Performance EX500 Engine  (Read 15115 times)
JohnnyKZ1000A
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9


« on: January 04, 2011, 08:12:40 PM »

Hello to everyone. I am new to this site. My name is John. I would like to see if anyone can answer my questions.
 
 I am looking to build a High Performance EX500 Engine, I have read through this site and many people say it is worthless to modify this engine. I am not looking for high Horse Power gains, I just want the benefits of performance parts. (I have built several High Performance KZ1000's).
 I have come to the conclusion this is the best engine for the project I am building. Since I am unfamiliar with this engine any help would be great!

 1.) The Head
I would like to polish and port the head (any suggestions?)
Install larger Intake and Exhaust Valves. ( Size, Stainless Steel, Titanium?)
Racing Cams ( Suggested Companies?)
Cam Chain ( Do I need to upgrade the chain, followers, adjuster?)

2.) The Cylinder
Big Bore Kit ( Companies, largest size before modifying the cases,etc.)
High Performance Rods (Are the stock ones strong enough, suggested racing companies?)
Forged Crank (is the stock one strong enough, suggested companies?)

3.) Clutch
Any modifications or just a Barnett racing clutch?

4.)Carburetors
Suggested jet sizes, use larger ones, suggestions?

Again, Any help you can give me would be great. Maybe some of you that have raced these bikes maybe you could send me to the right places.
Thanks John
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 08:18:16 PM by JohnnyKZ1000A » Logged
EX-500.com
Advertisement
FirstXRS
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 253



« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 12:14:43 PM »

All of those ideas have been shot down before, for the reasons you've already discovered. #3 might do something for you, I'm not sure about that. Our carb doesn't like larger jets; keep them stock.

Have you done the FOG Airbox mod yet? That alone will get your motor running.
Logged

2001 EX Purple Dragon | FOG mod | Cut Front Springs | SV650 Shock | -1/0
2008 zx-6r | K&N Air | Jumper Mod
http://www.youtube.com/user/FirstXRS
JohnnyKZ1000A
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9


« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 05:54:35 PM »

All of those ideas have been shot down before, for the reasons you've already discovered. #3 might do something for you, I'm not sure about that. Our carb doesn't like larger jets; keep them stock.

Have you done the FOG Airbox mod yet? That alone will get your motor running.

Thanks for the response, but I like modified engines, nothing feels or revs like one. Like I mentioned I have built many modified engines, I was just trying to gather infomation on my engine build. I guess I will have to go my owm route. As far as the air box mod it will not work for my project I am just using the engine. Thanks again
John
Logged
Rinzler
Administrator
Post Whore Superstar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24715


King Ding-a-Ling


WWW
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2011, 06:46:36 PM »

crank is the weak spot in the engine and so are it's bearings, and because the cam chain splits the case down the middle, it creates it's own weakness.

Kawasaki did a fine job of hot-roding the 454LTD motor... there's not much more you can do and still keep reliability high... without spending a small fortune. but if you want to burn cash...

start with a Falicon custom forged crank and rods. remember there's no replacement for displacement, so replace and plate the sleeves, larger low drag pistons are probably going to be a custom job as well unless you can find someone that makes them. Wisco doesn't, so don't look there. lighten the flywheel, and put stronger springs in the clutch (stock clutch plates are fine, but Barnetts are better). flat slide carbs for tuning and have fun.
Logged

/Rinzler/.
Sr. Moderator
EX-500.com
JohnnyKZ1000A
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9


« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2011, 11:04:44 PM »

crank is the weak spot in the engine and so are it's bearings, and because the cam chain splits the case down the middle, it creates it's own weakness.

Kawasaki did a fine job of hot-roding the 454LTD motor... there's not much more you can do and still keep reliability high... without spending a small fortune. but if you want to burn cash...

start with a Falicon custom forged crank and rods. remember there's no replacement for displacement, so replace and plate the sleeves, larger low drag pistons are probably going to be a custom job as well unless you can find someone that makes them. Wisco doesn't, so don't look there. lighten the flywheel, and put stronger springs in the clutch (stock clutch plates are fine, but Barnetts are better). flat slide carbs for tuning and have fun.

 This is great! This is what I need to know.I figured I would need to do a crank, knowing about the bearings are a help. What about the camchain and maybe better followers? Does someone make them?
 Since Wisco does not sell pistons for the EX can someone suggest another company?
 I do not need to go to a big bore just lighter pistons will work.
Can anybody also suggest where I can get some road race cams?
Thanks
John
Logged
Rinzler
Administrator
Post Whore Superstar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24715


King Ding-a-Ling


WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 12:17:49 AM »

chain and followers are fine. you may want to look into a replacement tensioner though. a Gen2 will be just fine. adjustable ones aren't necessary.
Logged

/Rinzler/.
Sr. Moderator
EX-500.com
The Villain
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 832



« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 12:48:36 AM »

I think we may have run roughshod over the most interesting nugget...
As far as the air box mod it will not work for my project I am just using the engine.

Just...using...the engine...for what?  Will it still even be powering a motorcycle?  I'm having visions of medieval torture devices, made modern through the introduction of whirring gears and moving parts and the gnashing of a 520 chain hooked up to an overbuilt, 14k revving EX500 MOTOR FROM HELL!!

But of course, that's how my mind works.  Perhaps he's just going to power a go-kart.

EDCo can supply pistons in overbore sizes, but I have no idea about keeping the stock bore.  An extremely mild overbore allows the use of ZX-11 pistons, so you'd have access to any aftermarket units for that machine.
Logged

Rinzler
Administrator
Post Whore Superstar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24715


King Ding-a-Ling


WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 12:50:17 AM »

I'm guessing this is a FUSA project... just a guess.
Logged

/Rinzler/.
Sr. Moderator
EX-500.com
Nemo128
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Location: Newark, NJ
Posts: 572


« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2011, 12:30:01 PM »

KS, what's FUSA if you don't mind me asking?
Logged

Me:  2009 Yamaha FZ6 w/ Shad 40L top case, dual low beam mod
Wife: 2008 EX5 Black w/ Larry Bar Risers, 6-position levers, MDA123 8-cell battery, Two Brothers M6 cans, 650R mirrors, super-tuned by ducatiman!
Rinzler
Administrator
Post Whore Superstar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24715


King Ding-a-Ling


WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2011, 01:18:16 PM »

KS, what's FUSA if you don't mind me asking?

http://www.acronymfinder.com/Formula-USA-%28motorcycle-racing-series%29-%28FUSA%29.html

Formula USA

It's where universities and schools compete using one off custom built race machines, like carts or cars.
Logged

/Rinzler/.
Sr. Moderator
EX-500.com
Nemo128
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Location: Newark, NJ
Posts: 572


« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2011, 02:52:54 PM »

I had no idea Formula USA did motorcycles too, thanks!
Logged

Me:  2009 Yamaha FZ6 w/ Shad 40L top case, dual low beam mod
Wife: 2008 EX5 Black w/ Larry Bar Risers, 6-position levers, MDA123 8-cell battery, Two Brothers M6 cans, 650R mirrors, super-tuned by ducatiman!
The450Man
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Location: PA
Posts: 269



« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2011, 05:49:36 PM »

dont "polish" the intake ports but do polish the exhaust ports.

Smooth dosnt relate to performance intake wise. Think of a gold ball, those dimples sure help it fly Smiley

Tripple angle valve job will also help.
Logged

2001 EX500R Ninja- K&N PODs (made it work!), Full D&D
2005 Honda 450R- +3 mm stroker crank, hotcams stage 2, yoshi full
2009 Husqvarna smr 450 Supermoto, FMF powercore 4
JohnnyKZ1000A
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9


« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2011, 06:09:19 PM »

I think we may have run roughshod over the most interesting nugget...
As far as the air box mod it will not work for my project I am just using the engine.

Just...using...the engine...for what?  Will it still even be powering a motorcycle?  I'm having visions of medieval torture devices, made modern through the introduction of whirring gears and moving parts and the gnashing of a 520 chain hooked up to an overbuilt, 14k revving EX500 MOTOR FROM HELL!!

But of course, that's how my mind works.  Perhaps he's just going to power a go-kart.


EDCo can supply pistons in overbore sizes, but I have no idea about keeping the stock bore.  An extremely mild overbore allows the use of ZX-11 pistons, so you'd have access to any aftermarket units for that machine.


Thanks for the information this will help. What about Cams?
No, this motor is not going into a kart. You see I have designed and building an unique all aluminum motorcycle frame and swingarm and I need an engine that is very lightweight and makes decent power. I am shooting for a bike that is at least 350lbs. which should be no problem, I probably can hit 320 lbs. with a little work maybe less. With this frame I will be able to make a cafe' racer, flat tracker , or a standard UJM. I will be making all of my own bodywork, and other options. Since the EX500 was made from 1987 to 2009 that is over twenty years of the basically same engine so they should be plentiful.
again thanks for your help.
Logged
Rinzler
Administrator
Post Whore Superstar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24715


King Ding-a-Ling


WWW
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2011, 06:24:13 PM »

You know Johnny, you may want to look into other engines if you're building your own frame. lightweight and stong generally don't go well together, so a motor that can take the forces of being a stressed member of the frame will do you better than just throwing a lump into a cradle frame and say "All done!".

for instance, and instance only, the Moto2 class uses custom built frames, but they all use the same CBR600RR engine.
Logged

/Rinzler/.
Sr. Moderator
EX-500.com
JohnnyKZ1000A
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9


« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2011, 07:08:28 PM »

You know Johnny, you may want to look into other engines if you're building your own frame. lightweight and stong generally don't go well together, so a motor that can take the forces of being a stressed member of the frame will do you better than just throwing a lump into a cradle frame and say "All done!".

for instance, and instance only, the Moto2 class uses custom built frames, but they all use the same CBR600RR engine.

Thanks for the concern, but I do not want to build a 4 cyl. engine this time (very heavy) . Also, any engine I put in my frame will not be a stress member! When I am done with this frame you will be able to install any engine you want with only slight modifications.
Logged
Rinzler
Administrator
Post Whore Superstar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24715


King Ding-a-Ling


WWW
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2011, 08:09:27 PM »

alright, well, just a thought.
Logged

/Rinzler/.
Sr. Moderator
EX-500.com
FOG
FOG
Post Whore Superstar
*****
Offline Offline

Location: North Central Arkansas
Posts: 15922

DO not send me PMs such messages will be dumped. E


« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2011, 12:03:08 AM »

What ? once a month we get one of these. Anyone so experienced should be able to just look at this engine and see it is not suitable for Modifications to increase output.

FOG
Logged

I hate PMs if you want to contact me, find my email address.
JohnnyKZ1000A
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9


« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2011, 09:58:07 AM »

What ? once a month we get one of these. Anyone so experienced should be able to just look at this engine and see it is not suitable for Modifications to increase output.

FOG
Sorry FOG all engines are suitable for modifications. Just replacing the valves with Titanium ones, Forged light pistons with stock bores, carb modifications or flatside replacements, undercut gears, high performance crank, and rods, gas flow porting, etc. the list goes on, will increase the performance of any engine. Why do people modify Honda 50cc Monkeys? There is a whole aftermarket industry for those bikes.
There are many examples of successfull modifications done to a wide range of motorcycle engines.

 As far as being experienced, if you were, you would not be writing a response like you did. I expected more from this site. I you have read my earlier comments, I said I was gathering information on a engine I am not familiar with and if no one knew or has done the modifications to the engine I was asking . I would have to go my own route.
 So far everyone on this site  has been helpful except for you.
Logged
Rinzler
Administrator
Post Whore Superstar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24715


King Ding-a-Ling


WWW
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2011, 10:19:16 AM »

well Johnny, as i alluded to before, it's the design that makes it weak, not it's collective or individual parts. modifications, sure... you can modify anything... but to make power while keeping it reliable. that's another story. the 500 is a bored and hot-rodded LTD454 motor. high strung as it is, but reliable-ish.
Logged

/Rinzler/.
Sr. Moderator
EX-500.com
tilt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 75


« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2011, 10:52:28 AM »

  Cheesy  I was the last to ask.. 

 Someone gave me four complete spare engines last week for the EX

..and guess what came with it all?

 Two ported and polished heads!!   



What ? once a month we get one of these. Anyone so experienced should be able to just look at this engine and see it is not suitable for Modifications to increase output.

FOG

 
Logged
JohnnyKZ1000A
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9


« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2011, 11:36:42 AM »

well Johnny, as i alluded to before, it's the design that makes it weak, not it's collective or individual parts. modifications, sure... you can modify anything... but to make power while keeping it reliable. that's another story. the 500 is a bored and hot-rodded LTD454 motor. high strung as it is, but reliable-ish.

 Yes, I agree keeping thing reliable is the key, but there are things you can do to increase reliability.
 One example is on a KZ1000 when using higher comp pistons the start idler gear fails, so I machine the aluminum cases and install bronze bearings ( as oppose to steel on aluminum ). Now it never fails.

 With your help and others, I have concluded that I will leave the stock dimensions but install quality parts, and experience mods.
 With high quality bearings, engine blueprinting, racing cranks,rods, valve springs and cams, SS or Titanium Valves, Barnett clutch, carbs. etc. You will have an engine that is very reliable, but will rev so fast and consistently make the most of what it has for power. The difference will be like a KZ400 LTD to a EX500.
Again thanks you have been very helpful.

Note: Boy Tilt is lucky, I wish someone would give me 4 complete engines and look some are ported and polished. He has all the luck.
Logged
K-woppa
Guest
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2011, 12:13:29 PM »

If you plan on going for more revs, I think you should prepare yourself because the weak basic architecture of the engine might end up leaving you with an expensive pile of parts. But it's your money, not mine.
Logged
Rinzler
Administrator
Post Whore Superstar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24715


King Ding-a-Ling


WWW
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2011, 12:19:11 PM »

well without a CDI overhaul he can't rev past 11000 anyway. the ignition map ends there. that's as fast as it will fire.
Logged

/Rinzler/.
Sr. Moderator
EX-500.com
FOG
FOG
Post Whore Superstar
*****
Offline Offline

Location: North Central Arkansas
Posts: 15922

DO not send me PMs such messages will be dumped. E


« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2011, 12:53:02 PM »

What ? once a month we get one of these. Anyone so experienced should be able to just look at this engine and see it is not suitable for Modifications to increase output.

FOG
Sorry FOG all engines are suitable for modifications. Just replacing the valves with Titanium ones, Forged light pistons with stock bores, carb modifications or flatside replacements, undercut gears, high performance crank, and rods, gas flow porting, etc. the list goes on, will increase the performance of any engine. Why do people modify Honda 50cc Monkeys? There is a whole aftermarket industry for those bikes.
There are many examples of successfull modifications done to a wide range of motorcycle engines.

 As far as being experienced, if you were, you would not be writing a response like you did. I expected more from this site. I you have read my earlier comments, I said I was gathering information on a engine I am not familiar with and if no one knew or has done the modifications to the engine I was asking . I would have to go my own route.
 So far everyone on this site  has been helpful except for you.

Fact is, I'm the one with the most experience with this engine here. I raced one and managed a team of three riders on both stock and Modified EXs for 12 years.
  You can do all that crap to a ex and it amounts to tits on a bull.  All that stuff is aimed at increasing the revs. This is the one thing this engine cannot do.
I have listed the problems with this engine many times here in the past. but I do it again , Just for you.

Any attempt to raise the BMEP will result is gas blow by due to weak head clamping.  (long bolts go all the way to the cases stretch like mad)  Flat lapping helps but not if you raise the CR.

The Crank. Is too long and as a Result is wippy and will snap on a regular basis. New billet cranks help that but cost the earth and only transfer the weakness to other parts. Then that giant lump of an alternator???

Rods are very bad They stretch and hit the head and the big ends open and spin bearings at any reves much beyond the stock 10.5K

Even the cases are too weak to support the crank loads in stock form. The output shaft bearing often levers them apart from chain drive loads.

The above problems stem from a design weakness that put the Cam drive in the center . This sl=plits the engine into to seperate singles held together by a very thin web of alum. They warp and distort due to this. Thais also adds a extra bearing to the crank making it way long.


Cylinders:  They are already too thin being over bored from the 454 version . So thin that they are all out of round and you cannot achieve good ring seal even at the Stock BMEP or CR.  New cylinders are out there

The Balance shaft is designed to quell fore/aft rocking couple by transferring that load into the cases. This causes bearing failure especially on the water pump drive end.

Fact is Kawasaki has already done all the cute trick you think your so smart with.

I have seen a few of these engines that make 60 + at the rear wheel

I have rebuilt about 100 of these engines for racing and I can testify in court to the above.

You can make it a little bigger as long as you don't over rev it.

As I said this engine is Not suitable for Modifacation

FOG
Logged

I hate PMs if you want to contact me, find my email address.
Rinzler
Administrator
Post Whore Superstar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24715


King Ding-a-Ling


WWW
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2011, 01:36:37 PM »

Fact is, I'm the one with the most experience with this engine here.

and he's dead right on this.
Logged

/Rinzler/.
Sr. Moderator
EX-500.com
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to: