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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-4-2019, 3:49 PM Thread Starter
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LED headlight

I’ve done a lot of reading and many older posts warn against using LED headlights, but I see newer threads also where it seems to work for lots of people? What is the current situation, looking to replace the stock headlight bulb with an LES for a whiter ish slightly blue hue look? Hopefully less power/heat? Cost isn’t a huge concern as long as it works, I’m fine if it doesent light any better but would prefer if it didn’t get any worse for lighting, with little to no mods? Is this a thing or is this what people seem to be saying is a stupid idea?
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-5-2019, 11:57 AM
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The problem is LED bulbs using COB arrays spray light everywhere. This results in glare (light above horizontal) that blinds on-coming traffic. Resulting in very dangerous situation for you.

The ONLY LED bulb that works to mimics shape of incandescent filament is Philips X-treme Ultinon bulb. It uses single LED element shaped and positioned exactly like original filament.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 11-5-2019 at 12:15 PM.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-5-2019, 4:37 PM Thread Starter
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Philips X-tremeUltinon gen2 LED X-treme Ultinon Car Headlight Bulbs H4 (Twin) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LG7Y821..._ZXDWDb3Y6DE6T

Is it this the one?


Philips Ultinon LED H4 Bulbs Set of 2X Bulbs 6200K +160% 11342ULWX2 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CCH7H2X..._t0DWDbPJHVPBZ
Or this one?

I see and you’ve found this one from your use had no issues with this?

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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
The problem is LED bulbs using COB arrays spray light everywhere. This results in glare (light above horizontal) that blinds on-coming traffic. Resulting in very dangerous situation for you.

The ONLY LED bulb that works to mimics shape of incandescent filament is Philips X-treme Ultinon bulb. It uses single LED element shaped and positioned exactly like original filament.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-5-2019, 6:02 PM
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Either one should work, they look like same design.
Important part is bulb-shield to block stray light from hitting oncoming traffic.
Due to limited angle of light-emissions compared to 360-degree filament, LED bulb tends to have lots of light close-up, but lacks depth and penetration.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-5-2019, 7:55 PM Thread Starter
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Okay awesome I’ll prob give this a shot then, did you use these yourself? Any pictures thanks for the info man.

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Either one should work, they look like same design.
Important part is bulb-shield to block stray light from hitting oncoming traffic.
Due to limited angle of light-emissions compared to 360-degree filament, LED bulb tends to have lots of light close-up, but lacks depth and penetration.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-6-2019, 9:04 PM
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Here's the units I have in my EX and Guzzi. As can be seen, the Phillips ZES chips are sized and shaped just as the wire filament in a halogen bulb. Fan cooled and have an external diver to isolate it from heat. I tested one of these in an EX headlight for over an hour and my Ir thermometer read about 80ºF. PIAA also makes some high-end H4/9003 LED units. Priced about where the Phillips units are and above, depending.
https://www.amazon.com/Infitary-Head...omotive&sr=1-5
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I finally figured out why I like Ducatis: With their exhaust note and dry clutch, they sound almost like a Guzzi!
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-7-2019, 12:43 AM
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PIAA and high-end in one sentence is oxymoron.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-7-2019, 1:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
PIAA and high-end in one sentence is oxymoron.
Yeah. I lucked into a pair for $60 each, half retail in an open box. Nice lights, but they are 1st gen PIAA and a little on the big side - better for cars. Worked well in the EX though, and no fit problems since the EX headlight is essentially hanging in mid-air.

I finally figured out why I like Ducatis: With their exhaust note and dry clutch, they sound almost like a Guzzi!
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-8-2019, 3:08 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
PIAA and high-end in one sentence is oxymoron.
Yeah. I lucked into a pair for $60 each, half retail in an open box. Nice lights, but they are 1st gen PIAA and a little on the big side - better for cars. Worked well in the EX though, and no fit problems since the EX headlight is essentially hanging in mid-air.
I want to be transparent, I bought a HID light for my bike, 1997, and it had clearance issues. The size of the bulb that you try to put in there is very important, directly behind the hole for the bulb in the headlight housing is a metal bar that is part of the structure that holds the gauges and front fairing. There’s very little clearance, it’s been a while since I did my conversion so I can’t say for certain how much, maybe an inch or less? I found a great bulb that’s bright, mimics the halogen filament pattern, but most importantly it has a reversible heat sink behind it so it can fit in half the space as the average led. I’ll post back when I have more info on my bulb, again it’s been a while but I still have the other bulb in the box (2 for $65, no internet sales tax used to be so great) I just have to dig it out. A quick search revealed nothing useful but I bought them off eBay. The EX500R has a great headlight design and if you find a bulb like mine that can take advantage of the time and money put into the development of that headlight, there’s absolutely no comparison. The led is superior hands down, you’ll wonder how you saw at all before. Again, beware of the low clearance behind your headlight!
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-9-2019, 4:18 AM
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I got these https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1, They do the job I don't know if they are the best of the best.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-9-2019, 10:49 PM
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That's bit dangerous as it doesn't have sharp cut-off to prevent blinding oncoming traffic. Something like this is what you're after.



Even high-beam should have cut-off.




Issue is bulb and reflectors MUST be designed together. You can't put HID or LED bulbs into reflector-housings designed for incandescent bulbs and not have issues with dangerous glare. Sure, best headlights on market is LED from Prius, but those were designed from beginning to use LED bulbs. Not retrofitted afterwards. LED bulb on Prius actually aim upwards and offset-parabola reflector captures ALL of output light and directs in onto road. There's zero spill coming off front-end of light that's not controlled.The old way of controlling spill and glare was to put opaque cap on front of bulb, but that's wasteful.


Last edited by DannoXYZ; 11-9-2019 at 10:54 PM.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-20-2019, 2:00 PM Thread Starter
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So this issue you’ve described here is normally a concern but not with the Philip you one mentioned is that correct as they have a built in one with the led light?thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
That's bit dangerous as it doesn't have sharp cut-off to prevent blinding oncoming traffic. Something like this is what you're after.



Even high-beam should have cut-off.




Issue is bulb and reflectors MUST be designed together. You can't put HID or LED bulbs into reflector-housings designed for incandescent bulbs and not have issues with dangerous glare. Sure, best headlights on market is LED from Prius, but those were designed from beginning to use LED bulbs. Not retrofitted afterwards. LED bulb on Prius actually aim upwards and offset-parabola reflector captures ALL of output light and directs in onto road. There's zero spill coming off front-end of light that's not controlled.The old way of controlling spill and glare was to put opaque cap on front of bulb, but that's wasteful.

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-20-2019, 2:58 PM Thread Starter
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What is the advantage of the Philips mentioned above over the ones you posted about here? The price is wayyyy cheaper so why would I pay for the Philips ones? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by po18guy View Post
Here's the units I have in my EX and Guzzi. As can be seen, the Phillips ZES chips are sized and shaped just as the wire filament in a halogen bulb. Fan cooled and have an external diver to isolate it from heat. I tested one of these in an EX headlight for over an hour and my Ir thermometer read about 80ºF. PIAA also makes some high-end H4/9003 LED units. Priced about where the Phillips units are and above, depending.
https://www.amazon.com/Infitary-Head...omotive&sr=1-5
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-20-2019, 11:58 PM
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Phillips has the name. They have engineering and QC, but their cost per unit is high for what you get. As we see, many Chinese companies are reverse-enginering the top end units and producing them for a fraction of the cost. At $20/pair, you could by what, 5 sets or more for the cost of the name brands? If you think they'll flame out, just toss a spare back by the tool kit just in case.

The Phillips Lumileds ZES chips are quite a bit brighter, and the closest in size/shape to the halogen filament, thus their beam is the best of the bunch.

I finally figured out why I like Ducatis: With their exhaust note and dry clutch, they sound almost like a Guzzi!
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 8:29 PM
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May not look like it in photos as some of them are renderings, but in real-life, the Philips LED is much smaller, about 1/2 grain of rice total. Others are about 4x larger. Result is Philips is much, much more like incandescent filament in its output rays and is focused by reflector housings similar to incandescent bulbs. All others end up spraying light above horizontal and cause glare to blind oncoming drivers. And that light doesn't make it onto ground for you to see as well.

Note this comparison is with projector lights. Reflector lights would have even more dramatic differences and above-horizontal glare much worse.


Last edited by DannoXYZ; 11-24-2019 at 3:29 PM.
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-24-2019, 3:47 AM
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Manufacturers are quickly perfecting the design, as much a compromise as it is. An LED specific reflector housing, or dedicated projector beam housing will reveal the LED's full potential.

I finally figured out why I like Ducatis: With their exhaust note and dry clutch, they sound almost like a Guzzi!
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-24-2019, 3:43 PM
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Quote:
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Manufacturers are quickly perfecting the design, as much a compromise as it is. An LED specific reflector housing, or dedicated projector beam housing will reveal the LED's full potential.
Problem isn't manufacturing so much as government regulators with small-penis-not-invented-here syndrome (think GM). U.S. still has not adopted superior ECE lighting standards enacted in 1986. We're easily 30-years behind! DOT is still demanding awful central-spot flashlight beam while rest of world has been enjoying better light for decades. It's unfortunate that EX500's H4 lights don't have reflector design with sharp cut-off that allows use of higher-output bulbs without incurring dangerous glare.

https://garagespot.com/first-ever-ii...d-improvement/

ECE headlight on left, DOT H4 on right





Last edited by DannoXYZ; 11-24-2019 at 3:59 PM.
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-24-2019, 4:08 PM
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I used to sell headlight upgrade for Porsches, Ferrari, Miata, Jeep, etc. using Cibié 7" ECE headlamp (similar to famous Z-beams) along with upgraded relay harness that made HUGE difference. More light on ground for better visibility for driver, less light into oncoming traffic's eyes, everyone wins!



Until one day, I got knock on door and there stood some little man with clipboard from some non-descript government office who wanted to see "DOT" imprinted on my headlamps... Grrrr


Some good technical info on lighting:
https://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/tech.html
Daniel Stern - Thinking of converting your halogen headlamps to HID or LED?
Daniel Stern - presentation to NHTSA on glare.pdf
comparison Hella vs. Cibié 7" headlamps (using same H4 bulb)
comparison 165x100mm headlamps, winner @ bottom
Good lighting starts with good headlamp.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 11-24-2019 at 8:57 PM.
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