Waterpump/balancer shaft repair botched. - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 8-12-2019, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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Waterpump/balancer shaft repair botched.

Hey all. I recently tried to replace all the water pump/balancer shaft gaskets and seals per the instructions posted on the forum (link below) and the factory service manual. As the title suggests, I failed and I need a little help deciding what to do from here. Basically, after I replaced all the seals and gaskets I filled the radiator with water to flush the system. When the engine reached operating temperature, a small drip of what appeared to be oil (possibly mixed with coolant) started to sizzle and smoke off the exhaust pipe.



https://www.ex-500.com/37-how-s-fyi/...side-seal.html


First things first, I took the assembly apart again and noticed that the oil seal that sits behind the mechanical seal was ripped (see picture). I think it ripped because I over tightened the water pump impeller, but I'm not sure. Well, I'm sure I overtightened the impeller, but I'm not sure that's what caused the oil seal to rip.



Secondly, the mating surfaces on the gasket that sits between the impeller housing and the engine didn't appear to fully form (see pictures). The images are from both surfaces of the gasket (i.e. the waterpump housing side and engine side of the gasket). I should also mention the part that didn't appear to seal is the upper portion of the gasket. Is this normal? Would it have sealed had I given it more time to expand from heat?



So my plan is to order a new oil seal, lube it up, put it in, hand tighten the impeller, and pray to god. I want to reuse the "new" gaskets, but I have a feeling that you all are going to tell me to just buy new ones... Any thoughts, questions, suggestions, or anything else? I really don't want to do this a third time, so any help would be greatly appreciated.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg oil seal.jpg (630.5 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Gasket-engine surface.jpg (440.1 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Gasket-waterpump side.jpg (377.1 KB, 11 views)

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 8-13-2019, 7:40 AM
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I think those gaskets can be reused. Did you use a gasket sealer on them?

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 8-13-2019, 8:26 AM
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yeah the torn oil seal is your problem, did you fit it the right way round as it can tear the seal lip if fitted wrong. those gaskets look fine you can use a smear of RTV on reassembly as long as you don't intend to it all over it makes a mess to clean back off.

as an after thought did you renew the "O" rings on the pipe that joins the pump to the block and lube them with a PJ sometimes if the pipe doesn't sit fully home it can hold off the water pump cover plate so it doesn't sit fully home. the small leak often seals it's self over time but it is better to do it right and do it once.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 8-13-2019, 10:59 AM
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I "Fixed" many without any gaskets at all just a coat of RTV, mind that you don't plug the weep hole is all

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 8-13-2019, 12:21 PM
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The damage to that oil seal appears to be due to improper installation of the seal itself. The tightness of the impeller has no effect on that oil seal. Do not just thread on the impeller hand tight, you will simply create another leak, this time of coolant.

When installing that oil seal, make sure it is bottomed out in the plate. It's very possible it wasn't, so when you put that plate on and then tightened down the whole assembly, the end of the seal got pushed around and distorted. Also, make sure the flat side of the seal is facing toward the plate you install it in. If you installed it with the dished part facing toward the plate, that could definitely has caused your problem.

The gaskets look reusable, you should be fine. And, as mentioned, make sure you replace the two o-rings on the pipe which connects the water pump to the cylinders.
Also, that big flat gasket which goes between the block and the impeller backing plate doesn't have much in the way of contact surfaces, so that's why it appears to be deformed. That's just the way it is, don't worry about it. The gasket between the impeller backing plate and the pump cover is the important one. Make damn sure both surfaces are scraped completely clean.

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 8-13-2019, 12:30 PM
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Oh I forgot, be sure to flat polish the carbon face of the water seal flat, if it is knicked 499 paper on a flat surface.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 8-13-2019, 3:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpe View Post
I think those gaskets can be reused. Did you use a gasket sealer on them?
No sir, I didn't use gasket sealer. Good to know. Will just reorder the seal.




Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkie View Post
yeah the torn oil seal is your problem, did you fit it the right way round as it can tear the seal lip if fitted wrong. those gaskets look fine you can use a smear of RTV on reassembly as long as you don't intend to it all over it makes a mess to clean back off.

as an after thought did you renew the "O" rings on the pipe that joins the pump to the block and lube them with a PJ sometimes if the pipe doesn't sit fully home it can hold off the water pump cover plate so it doesn't sit fully home. the small leak often seals it's self over time but it is better to do it right and do it once.

Thanks for the tip! I'm positive I put the seal in the right way. That's a good point with the O-rings! I did replace both of them and the may have not completely set into their housings. I'll definitely do that when I put everything back together.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Saabnut View Post
The damage to that oil seal appears to be due to improper installation of the seal itself. The tightness of the impeller has no effect on that oil seal. Do not just thread on the impeller hand tight, you will simply create another leak, this time of coolant.

When installing that oil seal, make sure it is bottomed out in the plate. It's very possible it wasn't, so when you put that plate on and then tightened down the whole assembly, the end of the seal got pushed around and distorted. Also, make sure the flat side of the seal is facing toward the plate you install it in. If you installed it with the dished part facing toward the plate, that could definitely has caused your problem.

The gaskets look reusable, you should be fine. And, as mentioned, make sure you replace the two o-rings on the pipe which connects the water pump to the cylinders.
Also, that big flat gasket which goes between the block and the impeller backing plate doesn't have much in the way of contact surfaces, so that's why it appears to be deformed. That's just the way it is, don't worry about it. The gasket between the impeller backing plate and the pump cover is the important one. Make damn sure both surfaces are scraped completely clean.


Roger that, does anyone know the torque specs for that impeller? My repair manual (haynes) doesn't give any. I thought I pushed the oil seal flat, but I guess I messed up. I'm sure I put it the right way, and I was very careful to push it in all the way in. I will order a couple since they are cheap and try to lightly press it into place with some pvc and a vice. If I mess up again, at least I won't have to wait for the replacement. Thanks for the advice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fog View Post
Oh I forgot, be sure to flat polish the carbon face of the water seal flat, if it is knicked 499 paper on a flat surface.

FOG

Great idea! Thanks.

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 8-13-2019, 5:03 PM
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The official torque spec for the impeller bolt is 95in.lbs. (that's inch pounds, not foot pounds) So just barely make contact with it. You should be able to put the oil seal in with your fingers, using a vice may be a bit of over kill.

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 8-13-2019, 5:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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The official torque spec for the impeller bolt is 95in.lbs. (that's inch pounds, not foot pounds)

Thanks. haha yeah, it would be really hard to confuse those two. 95 ft.lbs is more torque than needed for the front wheel.

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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 8-13-2019, 8:28 PM
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As bpe mentioned, you should be able to push that oil seal all the way in with your thumb, granted it's a snug fit, so it'll take some force. Make sure to clean out any corrosion on the metal and lather up the seal with grease. The kind of grease doesn't really matter as it's only to make it easier to pop that seal in and keep future corrosion at bay.

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