wont rev past 5500 ? '93 model - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-2-2019, 2:34 PM Thread Starter
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wont rev past 5500 ? '93 model

hi guys,

'93 model that was sitting for the past 14 years when it was dropped - just scuffed the fairings and bent the brake pedal. carbs fully cleaned top to bottom. new battery, plugs (pita lol) and a tank/petcock clean.
got her fired up, idles a little high... seems pretty cold blooded, or my temp gauge is off. went to ride and she refuses to go past 5500 rpms

any ideas ?
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'93 ex500, upjetted and piped

rz350, ktm300 dualsport, ls650 hardtail bobber, '78 70cc malossi honda hobbit mini gp race bike
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-2-2019, 2:44 PM
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fuel delivery? petcock? fuel filling? float system? diaphragm issue? loose carb innards? missing needle jet or 2? needle/holder assembly error?

just some ideas

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-2-2019, 3:41 PM
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OK my turn!

I had a 93, I miss it. Yours looks very nice from here, and I think its just a carb issue and you may still have clogged main jet and needle jet or the cv rubbers are not installed correctly.

Also is that a gallon of nitro fuel, if so what for!

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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-2-2019, 5:28 PM
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I'll add to the list of things to check -

Carb diaphragms. If damaged or not seated correctly may restrict lifting of slides (EDIT: Gordon already mentioned it...)

Air filter condition - over-oiling can dramatically reduce air flow

Anything else that may block the intake or snorkel
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-2-2019, 5:42 PM
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check carb vent hose. if you still have one throw it away.

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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-2-2019, 6:35 PM
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And eradicate any and all rodent residences in the airbox - checking the snorkels should lead you to that. Have an IR thermometer? On fast idle, check exhaust pipe temps to see if they are balanced. If one is colder, that's your cylinder. Compression? How do the plugs look after a ride?

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-3-2019, 7:23 AM Thread Starter
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so im thinking it's the diaphragms. when i had them apart they werent torn but certain area's of them looked more worn then the rest


i did have a hell of a rats nest in the air box. i took it all apart and im positive there's nothing in there now.

it does also have a k&n filter, for what it's worth. i did take it completely out and ensure there was nothing behind it / between it and the carbs. im 110% positive my jets are cleaned, i have a nice ultrasonic cleaner that i use with heat and she gets jets looking like new Inside and out. i can see fully through all the jets clear as day

iirc the petcock is gravity by vacuum. is there an aftermarket one out there that's all gravity and i can delete the vacuum line ? my RZ350 is the same way and it was one of the first things i changed.

any links by chance to what if anything, i can delete from the engine that's not needed or emissions related ? besides the carb vent to atmosphere lines lol



i do have a heat gun, let me go through them again and see what i can get going. i'll see if both pipes match or close in temps at idle





sorry to disappoint but that's just a gallon of windshield fluid

'93 ex500, upjetted and piped

rz350, ktm300 dualsport, ls650 hardtail bobber, '78 70cc malossi honda hobbit mini gp race bike
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-3-2019, 9:50 AM
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You can delete the pair system with this. https://www.ex-500.com/37-how-s-fyi/...moval-kit.html
But since it is not a necessity, and your on a strict budget, you should hold off until last on it until you know everything that does need to be done is under budget.
Don't know what all the goals are. But if getting longevity and reliability out of it is a goal, you will be needing to do a flywheel upgrade.

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-3-2019, 10:08 AM
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Make sure the K&N isn't over-oiled.

If you think it's a possibility, take it for a brief ride without the filter to see how it runs.
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-3-2019, 4:24 PM
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I just read you "Im new here post" and noticed the carb has been "Jetted up", this could be a part of your issue not getting past 5500?

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-4-2019, 6:57 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I just read you "Im new here post" and noticed the carb has been "Jetted up", this could be a part of your issue not getting past 5500?

so i did consider that, however this is how it was before i got it and she was running/riding great. she was layed down and the guy was spooked from riding since. full Muzzy exhuast and idr what size jets are in it. i should be able to confirm over the weekend

'93 ex500, upjetted and piped

rz350, ktm300 dualsport, ls650 hardtail bobber, '78 70cc malossi honda hobbit mini gp race bike
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-4-2019, 10:53 AM
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Ok, I would put a $1 on it being cv slide/diphram related then. Keep us in the loop.

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-4-2019, 11:11 AM
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You initially posted.....

" '93 model that was sitting for the past 14 years when it was dropped - just scuffed the fairings and bent the brake pedal. carbs fully cleaned top to bottom. new battery, plugs (pita lol) and a tank/petcock clean.
got her fired up, idles a little high... seems pretty cold blooded, or my temp gauge is off. went to ride and she refuses to go past 5500 rpms"


posted later.....

"this is how it was before i got it and she was running/riding great. she was layed down and the guy was spooked from riding since."

************************************************** ************************************
Ok, so you are obviously basing "she was running great" on the sellers word (as the bike sat for the last 14 years)

Regardless, looking forward...I'd now concentrate on carbs and entire fuel system. Barring assembly errors...sitting for 14 years justifies some very extreme steps to clearing of inner, invisible circuits.

Exactly what methods were used in your carb cleaning efforts? And the condition of tank and petcock performance?

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-4-2019, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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let me rephrase, 14 years ago it was upjetted and the full exhuast was installed. it was running great for a while and then the owner went down, and the bike sat for 14 years..

sorry for the confusion


i pulled the bowls off, floats out, ensured fuel from the rail was getting into the bowls, cleaned all the jets in my ultrasonic and compressed air. they look new, i can see through them completely and perfectly. bowls, floats, float needles, all jets were all cleaned.
i pulled the slides out, the needle jets, and the springs/diaphragms.

carb cleaner was used for the majority but i run a diluted simple green / water mix in my ultrasonic.

tank was surprisingly clean and almost empty! i removed the petcock and took it completely apart, it was pretty grimy

since it's vac, after a fuel flush with the petcock back on, i could confirm the vacuum was working to put gas into the (new) fuel line from the petcock to the carb fuel rail

Phew /////end novel
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-4-2019, 2:53 PM
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You concentrated on clearing the jets.....how about their various circuits? Choke plungers removed, carbs split? Each *completely stripped* body was run through ultrasonic? The pilot screws removed.....all new consumables? orings and float valves? Fuel levels verified?

Needle jets both present and accounted for? Needles installed first...*underneath* the holders?

Previously installed aftermarket jet kit or a DIY via big mains/ shimmed needles?

One other comment...as you suspect diaphragms....carbs off the bike....using your compressor blowgun....very *conservatively* blowing air into this part of each intake (circled in pic of 250 Ninja carbset) should raise the applicable slide. Go easy, progressive with the air to avoid damage...but a test nonetheless.

So, lets hear your reaction to the above checklist. If everything is hunky dory the bike should easily be hitting redline when called upon. *SOMETHING* has been overlooked somewhere.
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“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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Last edited by ducatiman; 12-4-2019 at 3:04 PM.
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 7:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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You concentrated on clearing the jets.....how about their various circuits? Choke plungers removed, carbs split? Each *completely stripped* body was run through ultrasonic? The pilot screws removed.....all new consumables? orings and float valves? Fuel levels verified?

Needle jets both present and accounted for? Needles installed first...*underneath* the holders?

Previously installed aftermarket jet kit or a DIY via big mains/ shimmed needles?

One other comment...as you suspect diaphragms....carbs off the bike....using your compressor blowgun....very *conservatively* blowing air into this part of each intake (circled in pic of 250 Ninja carbset) should raise the applicable slide. Go easy, progressive with the air to avoid damage...but a test nonetheless.

So, lets hear your reaction to the above checklist. If everything is hunky dory the bike should easily be hitting redline when called upon. *SOMETHING* has been overlooked somewhere.


so i did Not do a rebuild, just a cleaning.
bodies did go into the ultrasonic when they were as stripped as i could get them without taking them apart. bowls and jets all out, diaphragms, slides, needles all out...

i did Not do the air check thing. i'll give that a go this weekend but would it be worth it if im gonna order a decent rebuild kit anyway ?

needles are both under the holders. slight pain to do but yet, my clip was in the 2nd or 3rd position, i cant remember. im also not sure if it's the stock needle or if it came with the larger jets.

let me get a rebuild kit and replace the diaphragms and all the soft bits, i'll update in a week after it comes in and i give it a go!
Thanks all
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 8:43 AM Thread Starter
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could anyone recommend where i could get some new / used (good condition) diaphragms that wont break the bank ? lol just looked em up

'93 ex500, upjetted and piped

rz350, ktm300 dualsport, ls650 hardtail bobber, '78 70cc malossi honda hobbit mini gp race bike
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 9:50 AM
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Custom Carb Service (aka ducatiman) should be abke to help. I believe he stocks the slide diaphragms
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh00bs View Post
could anyone recommend where i could get some new / used (good condition) diaphragms that wont break the bank ? lol just looked em up
Are they expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post

One other comment...as you suspect diaphragms....carbs off the bike....using your compressor blowgun....very *conservatively* blowing air into this part of each intake (circled in pic of 250 Ninja carbset) should raise the applicable slide. Go easy, progressive with the air to avoid damage...but a test nonetheless.
Just a thought here ducatiman:
Do you not think this may be a dangerous test to be doing? You know, for someone that has never done it. The manual gives the test of just lifting up on the sliders and letting them drop on their own. Noting how smoothly, slowly, and equally they drop back down. Just wondering if you don't think this test is thorough enough?

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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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Are they expensive?
$150 for the pair of them, which is half of what i paid for the bike lol

let alone $150 for some carb parts... at that cost i can almost just buy diaphragm free carbs - personally im not a diaphragm fan
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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 1:06 PM
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I would not recomend using an airgun, I would do an Indeana fish-hook reaching in upside down and pushing up with my fingers and they should move upward with some slight spring resistance and you should hear a slight "wooshing" sound, doing the rebuild on a few ZX600E carbs the diaphrams would need 11 seconds in carb cleaner to soften and expand enough to get them to stay in the groove while assembling and this test was done after each attempt prior to the cleaning solution solution, you wiont here the woosh if ther are not sealing.

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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 1:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh00bs View Post
$150 for the pair of them, which is half of what i paid for the bike lol

let alone $150 for some carb parts... at that cost i can almost just buy diaphragm free carbs - personally im not a diaphragm fan
at this point, I'd suggest my #72 refurbs, ready to bolt on, factory correct jetting, a known baseline

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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 2:04 PM
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could anyone recommend where i could get some new / used (good condition) diaphragms that wont break the bank ? lol just looked em up
on what basis are you condemning your diaphragms? specifics please

did you perform the airgun test I suggested?

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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 5:33 PM
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Sorry,

If Ducati recomends the air gun trick you should give it a whirl.

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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 5:46 PM
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Are they expensive?
Just a thought here ducatiman:
Do you not think this may be a dangerous test to be doing? You know, for someone that has never done it. The manual gives the test of just lifting up on the sliders and letting them drop on their own. Noting how smoothly, slowly, and equally they drop back down. Just wondering if you don't think this test is thorough enough?
I did warn to be conservative, not go willy nilly.
I'm suggesting this test for the benefit of the OP because he *specifically* suspected (if not automatically condemned) his diaphragms as being worn out.

OK, the finger lift/drop test will highlight any physical impediments to slide movement. Note lifting with fingers and dropping via spring.
The air blast test goes a bit further....testing the diaphragm ability to lift the slide. A torn or holed rubber will exhibit reluctance to lift. Think about what is going on within the airbox....at idle throttle plates are closed and slides are at rest with minimum intake velocity ....now open the throttle, plates open and increased velocity within the airbox...slides rise.

So the air blast test mimics the introduction of running "velocity" and resultant slide lift via the integrity of the DIAGPHRAGMS as opposed to finger lift test (which will work every time, I'll guarantee that!)

I'll have to do a video someday. Again, perfectly safe if done conservatively, instantly revealing a "dead" slide...

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