Dead starter, seized engine, or something else? - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-8-2012, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

Thanks to all who make this forum such a helpful place....

I have a problem with my 92 ex500 (with a 1996 engine) that has me worried. The engine has 26,000 miles. I was cruising around on a 94 degree day. Bike was running ridiculously well. Oil level correct, engine running cool (just over the second line when this occured) when I decided to pull over and make a call. As I shifted down from 5th, around 2nd gear, the bike suddenly stalled, seconds before I intended on shutting down. I pulled over and immediately tried to restart. 3 different occasions I got the engine to crank 2-4 times. The starter was struggling and sounded like there was serious resistance as the cranks were not at all consistent. Third crank attempt was the last time I heard her turn.

Ran a car up with cables, charged for a few minutes. Solenoid goes bizerk when i try to start but no crank. At all. Doesn't even budge.

If this happened from a shut down bike I would swap out the starter first thing. But since this occurred while down shifting and running, I don't see how a starter could be to blame....

Am I wrong that jumping the bike should provide ample juice to start it(even if the battery is dead, which I don't believe it is)?

I'm worried the engine is seized. When an engine seizes, is it sudden like this? Is it possible it stayed at such good temps and ran perfectly up the the moment of seizing?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-8-2012, 1:18 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

you can easily check for a seized engine. remove crankshaft bolt cover and manually rotate the engine. remove spark plugs also.

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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-8-2012, 1:20 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

also fully charge the battery and get it load tested.

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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-8-2012, 1:31 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

Check the condition of the main fuse block (on top of the solenoid) mine done this a few weeks ago a 1990 gen 1.Turned out to be a bad connection.

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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-8-2012, 5:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

Checked and Switched all the fuses around including 30 amp main on side. Same symptom. I unscrewed the big plastic cap on side of cap, put socket on bolt, turn clockwise and the bolt backs out, doesn't turn engine like others describe. What am I missing?
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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-8-2012, 5:53 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

Not predicting doom. But all the broken crankshafts I knew of (3) happened this way. Downshifting on closed throttle coasting into the pits.
Like the man said above remove the center cover on the gen cover and fit a wrench to see whats up.
Could be the famous starter bolts as well.

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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-8-2012, 6:14 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

Flywheel bolt is opposite direction threads so tightening IS loosening.



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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-9-2012, 4:08 AM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

Quote:
Could be the famous starter bolts as well.
This is what Mr. FOG means (see photo below). The starter clutch which is around the crankshaft has three Allen head bolts that hold it in place. When one backs out like in the photo circled in green, it can jam the starter gear so the starter and the crankshaft both cannot move.

That was the symptom of the bike where this starter clutch was found.
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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-11-2012, 9:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

Thanks so much for one last glimmer of hope. The engine is completely locked up. So this COULD be it...I can't find a specific wiki page for this problem. Should I just dig in and try to get to those bolts? any tips?

Thanks
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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-11-2012, 10:51 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOG
Not predicting doom. But all the broken crankshafts I knew of (3) happened this way. Downshifting on closed throttle coasting into the pits.
...

FOG
Why would this happen?

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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-12-2012, 12:30 AM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

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Should I just dig in and try to get to those bolts? any tips?
It is much easier than rebuilding the engine. Just remove the alternator cover and remove the flywheel. You will know as soon as you see the back side of the flywheel. Remember that the flywheel bolt if reverse threaded so turning it clockwise loosens it.
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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-12-2012, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

So when I get my 18x1.5 MM Right handed Puller bolt, it threads in from the opposite side of the bike/engine from the cap/bolt turned to test for an engine seized?? In my mind it would have to in order to thread.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I just don't really understand how to pull the fly wheel.
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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-12-2012, 1:04 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

There is a set of threads in the flywheel. The bolt grabs them and pushes against the crankshaft and as the threads turn in the flywheel comes off. Its actually fun when it pops off. But this is done from the outside in. These threads are bigger than the holding bolt head and in the same cavity.



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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-12-2012, 3:26 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

The reverse threaded bolt holding the flywheel on is 10 mm x 36 mm long. Once it is removed you will see the normal threaded 18 mm threads for the puller.
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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-12-2012, 5:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

And more questions....

If a one or more bolt is backed out should I snug them back in or use a torqure wrench?

Do I need to use any sealant replacing the alternator cover?
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post #16 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-12-2012, 5:33 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

Use blue loctite on all bolts inside gen compartment. I would use an impact gun on those 3 bolts along with the loctite.

Use rtv or proper gasket for sidecover.



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post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-12-2012, 5:43 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

The factory manual says,

"Apply a non-permanent locking agent to the threads." I use Locktite

Torque the three screws to spec. which is 25 ft-lb. again according to the manual

and,

"Apply silicone sealant to the upper and lower case mating surface and to the area where the mating surface of the crankcase contacts the alternator cover gasket"
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post #18 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-12-2012, 5:54 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

Holy monotony batman.





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post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-12-2012, 5:56 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

This is what happens when two people are posting at the same time, LOL.
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post #20 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-12-2012, 8:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

So the last owner used red locktite to seal the alternator cover... any other option than taking heat to it? Seems like an oily bike and torch dont't play well together
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post #21 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-12-2012, 8:10 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

I whacked mine with rubber mallet. Popped right off. It's an aluminum cover.
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post #22 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-13-2012, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

Rubber mallet did it. Thanks. Took the cover off and can see one of the 3 bolts is backed out!! WOOOOOT!!! Bad news is my bolt is to course, need to buy fine threaded bolt tomorrow. Looks like I'll be riding again soon though thanks to the forum
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post #23 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-13-2012, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

To clarify I mean my the fly wheel pull bolt was too coarse
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post #24 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-13-2012, 4:12 PM
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

This is the second time this week for this failure. You are lucky it wasn't the crankshaft.
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post #25 of 52 (permalink) Old 7-13-2012, 8:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead starter, seized engine, or something else?

Hey guys finally got the flywheel off! Small cylinders (magnets?), springs, and pins are loose, out of place. Also all bolts loose, one backed out. Pics will be up shortly. Can i rebuild it? Also how do I secure flywheel while I impact wrench the clutch bolts?
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