Headgasket or cracked head - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 2:30 AM Thread Starter
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Headgasket or cracked head

Hello. I am having high pressure leaks in the cooling system. I have done lapping head and cylinder, I've reused the headgasket and done 50 ft pounds torque on the head bolts. Cycle heating and re-torque and nothing. I've tried K-seal in the cooling system- doesn't help. Then I re-lapped cylinder and head again and placed copper gasket with thin coat of silver paint VHT. 50ft pound torque. 10-15 minutes of heating without any throttle gives me same leaks from expansion tank. Can it be just cracked head?
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 5:36 AM
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Your over torqueing, cant say whether this is the problem.
Are you torqueing in the proper sequence?

2006 Ninja500R Purchased new July 2006; 0 miles. Miles as of January 2019; 102,137. It's a GO bike, not a SHOW bike.
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 7:11 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your reply. First four bolts in the middle section, when 2 left and two right. 3-4 step starting with 20 foot pound.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 7:35 AM
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might be your radiator cap.

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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 8:33 AM Thread Starter
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You can hear how coolant boiling in the extension tank.
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 9:14 AM
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Quote:
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You can hear how coolant boiling in the extension tank.
Did you check that your water pump is working?

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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, its possible to see how coolant run away with closed thermostat.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 1:45 PM Thread Starter
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Is there any easiest way to inspect if it really cracked?
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
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Is there any easiest way to inspect if it really cracked?
IF your head was cracked it would blow cold coolant into the expansion tank.
Start over with a cold engine fill the system rad cap off. run the engine and watch the coolant surge pas the open cap .
shut off close cap and fill the expansion tank 1/2 full

Run the engine blimp to full throttle while watching for bubbles in the expansion, Still with a cold engine.
No bubbles even with full throttle., head is OK.

look to a blockage elsewhere. Check the pipes in the head. be sure the T stat is opening. put it into a pot and cook it to watch when it opens (About 180 Or what ever its marked)

If you do have bubbles with cold coolant , you have done a bad job of lapping the head

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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 2:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fog View Post
IF your head was cracked it would blow cold coolant into the expansion tank.
Start over with a cold engine fill the system rad cap off. run the engine and watch the coolant surge pas the open cap .
shut off close cap and fill the expansion tank 1/2 full

Run the engine blimp to full throttle while watching for bubbles in the expansion, Still with a cold engine.
No bubbles even with full throttle., head is OK.

look to a blockage elsewhere. Check the pipes in the head. be sure the T stat is opening. put it into a pot and cook it to watch when it opens (About 180 Or what ever its marked)

If you do have bubbles with cold coolant , you have done a bad job of lapping the head

FOG
I have been checked thermostat before it's fine, opening as marked! If I pull throttle cable the engine coming hot very quickly, expansion tank does rising with cold and then hot coolant with alot bubbling and then hot hot coolant vapours.
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 3:12 PM Thread Starter
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About lapping - I've used new kitchen granite stone, finish was nice and smooth and mirrored , v-tech valve compound .... I've checked with light and struggled to find any small scratch. Didn't check on flatness, don't have any flat bar .
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 5:17 PM
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It sounds like your engine is not full of coolant, if it were it would take consideralbe time to boil. double check that you have completely filled the engine.

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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-4-2019, 9:53 PM
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Did you instal the head gasket right side up? If not you may have blocked the coolant passages through the head


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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-5-2019, 2:23 AM Thread Starter
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I installed on right position if it original gasket, but there is no marks on copper gasket, anyway both bores holes in the gasket and holes for coolant flow looks identical mirrored. Are you sure it can be blocked?
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-5-2019, 9:37 AM
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I don't know that the head has to be cracked in order to do what you described, just the head gasket not sealing.

It's possible the head needs more than just lapping. You would need to take the head and cylinder to a capable machine shop to have them check the flatness of the mating surfaces.

I know it's said that you don't need to replace the head gasket, but when we did ours I noticed some corrosion on the gasket so I felt it was a good idea to replace it.

By the time you have gone far enough to get to that point I don't feel it's efficient to pinch pennies.
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 3-5-2019, 2:42 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for you advice. The shop is the best and effective option of course.
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 4-9-2019, 7:21 AM Thread Starter
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Recently I ve measured flatness of the head and its not flat. Literally, my straight edge standing on the middle section. That's mean I removed sides of head more then center. But granite surface not straight any more its sanded out. Now I can use only other side of granite board with face down, the flatness there OK. Straight edge is very useful think, if you doing something like block or head lapping you better have it.
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 4-9-2019, 9:04 AM
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Yes granite surface is a one time use only . It is much too soft and wears quickly. A proper iron one kept in good condition is required to correct your head. further attempts with more home remides will not be successful . Get help.
If your really stuck email me


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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 4-9-2019, 9:20 AM
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Quote:
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Recently I ve measured flatness of the head and its not flat. Literally, my straight edge standing on the middle section. That's mean I removed sides of head more then center. But granite surface not straight any more its sanded out. Now I can use only other side of granite board with face down, the flatness there OK. Straight edge is very useful think, if you doing something like block or head lapping you better have it.
That may need more than just lapping.

Do you have a competent machine/race shop in the area? I would seek one out and have them at least look at it.
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 4-9-2019, 12:06 PM
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If you put 50lb torque on the head bolts, you need to replace them. They're stretched.
When you used the copper gasket did you anneal it first? It WILL NOT seal if you don't anneal it. DO NOT use any sealant on the head gasket.
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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 4-10-2019, 7:29 AM Thread Starter
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Why not any seal? The company from which I bought this gasket said that I have to anneal it and spray some thin coat of any high temp seal. Its really soft then I placed. I think its just head and block cylinder, they are really out of flatness. Is it so bad if bolts have got stretched abit?
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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 4-26-2019, 1:50 PM Thread Starter
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Just, after replacing the headgasket, can it be running right away? Reused OEM headgasket with enamel coat.
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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 4-26-2019, 2:05 PM Thread Starter
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By the way, my cylinder block sleeve are full with deep scratches I can feel them with nail and I will not be surprised if somewhere hiding a crack. I ve got another barrel and pistons almost for nothing , and some spare head bolts.
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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 4-27-2019, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
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By the way, my cylinder block sleeve are full with deep scratches I can feel them with nail and I will not be surprised if somewhere hiding a crack. I ve got another barrel and pistons almost for nothing , and some spare head bolts.

Be sure to hone it a bit to see how round.straight the bores are (not).

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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 4-29-2019, 5:17 AM Thread Starter
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Is there any difference between er500 filler neck and ex500. There seats for cap not perfect round on ex500 like small passage, but er5 got full round seat
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