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post #1 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-2-2019, 8:30 PM Thread Starter
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Loud Engine knock

Hey guys. long story short (kind of), after buying my 01 500r with 18k on it I replaced the battery, ignition coils, air filter, and fuel filter cleaned out the carburetor and changed the oil/oil filter. I thought it was running pretty good. Got about 160 miles out of it over the course of week before the throttle started hesitating and the bike died while out on a ride. had to borrow a friends truck to get it home. I didn't have time to dive into it right away so after about a day and a half, hadn't done a single thing to the bike, it started first try. very confused, I decided to give it a shot and got just beyond the end of my driveway before it died again, I think its a fuel problem. walked it back to my garage and of course it wouldn't start again but I'm getting a loud knock from the engine when I try. Its this knocking that really concerns me, I can't identify a pattern to it but its scary enough that I back off the ignition when it happens.

Not really sure what to do next here. Could the knocking be the flywheel? the spark plugs look alright but could it be a cylinder misfiring? could engine knock be caused by an improperly tuned carburetor?

I don't want to admit defeat and bring it to a shop unless I have really have to, sorry for the long read, and thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-2-2019, 8:56 PM
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calling @K-woppa you nearby?

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post #3 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-2-2019, 10:02 PM
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No, not really. The town in the OP's public profile is at least two hours from me.
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post #4 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-2-2019, 10:11 PM
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Loud knocking while cranking . Does not compute . Try to discrbe it better.

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post #5 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-2-2019, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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Loud knocking while cranking . Does not compute . Try to discrbe it better.

Fog
trying to upload a video for you but It keeps telling me its an invalid file. hold on..
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post #6 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-2-2019, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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I can't figure out how to upload the video, I keep getting an error code. I put it on youtube instead, heres a link:


Last edited by Kevinl314; 7-2-2019 at 11:49 PM.
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post #7 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-3-2019, 6:48 PM
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that sounds like nothing but the engine trying to start.

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post #8 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-3-2019, 7:02 PM Thread Starter
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I hope that’s all it is.
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post #9 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-3-2019, 7:07 PM
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and a flat battery

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post #10 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-5-2019, 7:25 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
and a flat battery
Interesting, I’ve never heard of engine knock from a low battery. But I guess it makes sense since I’ve never heard it when the bike is running. I’ve had the battery on a trickle charger all day so I guess we’ll see when I get home from work later.

On an unrelated note, since your the local carb expert, I have a couple of amateur questions for you. I removed my carb for cleaning and took pictures of everything for re-assembly. Got everything cleaned up and back on the bike but I’m not sure if it’s tuned correctly. How can I tel if it’s running too rich? Or too lean? Are there factory setting available for the jets?

Thanks.
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post #11 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-5-2019, 8:49 PM
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I wasn't attributing the slow cranking (via apparent low battery) to, nor being responsible for any other sound.

Historically, members of this forum have found ...factory exhaust , jetting, Fog modded factory airbox, K&N drop-in air filter, tuned pilot screws, carefully adjusted valves, correct spark plugs, clean, well set up carbs ....as the best method to a good running, quick starting, reliable EX.

do a little homework....read this thread https://www.ex-500.com/50-carburetor...ot-screws.html

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post #12 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-5-2019, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
I wasn't attributing the slow cranking (via apparent low battery) to, nor being responsible for any other sound.

Historically, members of this forum have found ...factory exhaust , jetting, Fog modded factory airbox, K&N drop-in air filter, tuned pilot screws, carefully adjusted valves, correct spark plugs, clean, well set up carbs ....as the best method to a good running, quick starting, reliable EX.

do a little homework....read this thread https://www.ex-500.com/50-carburetor...ot-screws.html
Oh, I misunderstood. I’ll definitely have a look at that link after work. Thanks again!

It’s just tough getting through a list like that by yourself with virtually no experience working on motorcycles, even with the internet as a resource. It’s still the loud knocking when trying to turn it over that concerns me, I know some said it sounded normal like the bike is just trying to start, but to me it doesn’t seem normal at all. Could the starter clutch be going?

Last edited by Kevinl314; 7-6-2019 at 1:56 AM.
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post #13 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-6-2019, 2:27 AM
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Sounds like the starter clutch being rotated backward by low voltage battery = slow cranking = compression trying to force the pistons back down instead of up and over top center. The starter clutches make noise when rotated counter to their design.



Bump start the bike and I'll bet it runs fine. Prolly need a batt or voltage regulator.

I finally figured out why I like Ducatis: With their exhaust note and dry clutch, they sound almost like a Guzzi!
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post #14 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-6-2019, 2:42 AM Thread Starter
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Sounds like the starter clutch being rotated backward by low voltage battery = slow cranking = compression trying to force the pistons back down instead of up and over top center. The starter clutches make noise when rotated counter to their design.



Bump start the bike and I'll bet it runs fine. Prolly need a batt or voltage regulator.
Battery only has 200 miles on it and is freshly charged. How do I test the voltage regulator?
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post #15 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-6-2019, 2:58 AM
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Voltage is one thing. It takes cranking amps to spin the engine. Hmmmm...the starter clutches on these things tend to frag themselves once in awhile. Try everything else first. A simple alternatorregulator test is to measure battery voltage at about 2,000-2500 RPM. It should be 14+ volts. If it is lower and dropping, your regulator could be fried. Quite a few of those bite the dist, as they are a cheap, electrically crude design.


Gotta be some threads here on using a multimeter to do a thorough test. Try the Wiki?

I finally figured out why I like Ducatis: With their exhaust note and dry clutch, they sound almost like a Guzzi!
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post #16 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-6-2019, 7:42 AM
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must admit I have watched that vid a few times [it's only short so you have to play it over] just sounds like a normal bike trying to start with a low battery. think we have all heard that sound at some time. @po18guy has this spot on.


the trouble is when a issue is described sometimes the small details can be missed or left out the Devil is in the details. from the description the OP gives in the first post it sounds to me like a classic RR failure. a bike that gradually loses the battery power over time 200 miles in a week sounds about right as the battery would self recover between runs until it got to a point it wouldn't start or run.

you can test the RR output of course but you need the bike running to do it. charge the battery after checking the electrolyte level [it may have boiled dry] and try it again. if it's any help I had the same issue a few years ago only mine was obvious the bike had a burning smell on a run. on inspection the RR connector was melted due to overheating the battery was almost bone dry also being 30miles from home I just topped up the battery and disconnected the RR. leaving it to recover the battery charge over a coffee I rode the bike home on just battery power and almost made it [2miles short] before it stopped.


after fitting a new battery [the old one now dead] it was over charging @17v the RR was gone. fitted a Mosfet and no more issues. the point of the story is just to illustrate that the bike will run quite a distance on battery power alone, and if left between runs it could take some time before there is not enough in the battery to run it. it's worth considering as you trace the issue.
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post #17 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-6-2019, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinl314 View Post
Battery only has 200 miles on it and is freshly charged. How do I test the voltage regulator?
Whoa, lets work backwards here for a moment....that was "freshly charged" in the video?

Lets get some numbers and the brand name off your battery (AGM? Wet acid?) and ditto on what brand/model charger you are using....what charge rate and length of time you are charging.

Before proclaiming a faulty charging system, the integrity of the battery itself must be scrutinized, new or not.

More info is needed here.

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post #18 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-6-2019, 1:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Battery only has 200 miles on it and is freshly charged. How do I test the voltage regulator?
Whoa, lets work backwards here for a moment....that was "freshly charged" in the video?

Lets get some numbers and the brand name off your battery (AGM? Wet acid?) and ditto on what brand/model charger you are using....what charge rate and length of time you are charging.

Before proclaiming a faulty charging system, the integrity of the battery itself must be scrutinized, new or not.

More info is needed here.
It’s a brand new YUASA battery I bought from a Kawasaki dealership, the kind that comes with the acid in a separate container and I let it drain in. 12V 150mA battery tender also from the dealership, had it on there for almost a full day. That knocking I keep going on and on about seems to be coming from underneath the crank case cover, that’s why I asked about the starter clutch.

Last edited by Kevinl314; 7-6-2019 at 1:31 PM.
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post #19 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-6-2019, 2:03 PM
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I think 3 members have concurred the vid reveals slow cranking.

AFA erratic stalling and starting issue, a carb pull and inspection is justified.

Now at 18K....valve clearance inspection was due at 15K...was it actually done? Correct valve clearances greatly enhance starting on the EX. Their exhaust valves have a tendency to tighten below minimum spec commonly resulting in ...hard starting.

AFA starter clutch...an inspection up to you, but between carb and valve clearance work...it should start at the touch of the button, thus minimizing stress on the starter clutch as opposed to during frequent and long start attempts.

I'd prioritize to get the thing to instantly start first...scrutinize the starter clutch thereafter.

But will respectfully yield to allow other members to chime in.

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Last edited by ducatiman; 7-6-2019 at 7:12 PM.
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post #20 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-6-2019, 2:18 PM Thread Starter
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I think 3 members have concurred the vid reveals slow cranking.

AFA erratic stalling and starting issue, a carb pull and inspection is justified.

Now at 18K....valve clearance inspection was due at 15K...was it actually done? Correct valve clearances greatly enhance starting on the EX. Their exhaust valves have a tendency to tighten below minimum spec commonly resulting in ...hard starting.

AFA starter clutch...an inspection up to you, but between carb and valve clearance work...it should start at the touch of the button, thus minimizing stress on the starter clutch during frequent and long start attempts.

I'd prioritize to get the thing to instantly start first...scrutinize the starter clutch thereafter.

But will respectfully yield to allow other members to chime in.
Cleaned the Jets and passage ways on the carb already, but I’m sure there’s a lot more in there I should look at and don’t know how to yet. And about the valves, I bought it with 18k and I have no maintenance records at all from previous owner so I’m not sure if they’ve been done or not, have to admit though. Actually opening up the engine makes me nervous.
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post #21 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-6-2019, 7:09 PM
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Cleaned the Jets and passage ways on the carb already, but I’m sure there’s a lot more in there I should look at and don’t know how to yet. And about the valves, I bought it with 18k and I have no maintenance records at all from previous owner so I’m not sure if they’ve been done or not, have to admit though. Actually opening up the engine makes me nervous.

If you can do what you've already done the valves won't be a problem. I did it and I'm an idiot!!!

Seriously, once you get the tank off everything else is pretty easy. The trick is to take your time! With the tank off you're staring right at what you need to get to. You'll struggle getting the valve cover off, only because there's cables running over it (unhook the throttle cable from the bars - it will help greatly!) but once the valve cover is off everything is right there for the adjusting!

Watch some YouTube videos to give yourself an idea of what needs to be done. And refer back to the members here on the forum. Really, it's not too difficult AND...the experience you'll get is priceless!


***Let me also add...by learning to do the valves you'll be prepared to keep the bike longer as you're going to have to adjust regularly. So once you know, the better you are at it!

Last edited by Devilsfan; 7-6-2019 at 7:12 PM.
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post #22 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-7-2019, 2:56 AM
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Everyone has a smart phone with a hi-res camera. Take pics of everything as you go - especially cable and hose routing. Makes it so much easier, since manuals never show what you really need. One clear pic of the right parts can save you a weekend of frustration.

I finally figured out why I like Ducatis: With their exhaust note and dry clutch, they sound almost like a Guzzi!
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post #23 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-7-2019, 7:53 AM
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ok so listen carefully "I shall say this only once" while the valve adjustment is important it is NOT going to turn a running bike into a non running bike overnight. [I've done 3 checks on the gen1 so far and only found one exhaust gap tight once] what ever has gone wrong it's not that.


it's far more likely something you did since last time it was running was not done right. or a simple RR issue and the battery has run low. even new batteries can go bad. mine boiled dry and was ruined at 6weeks old. just saying.
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post #24 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-7-2019, 8:18 AM
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[I've done 3 checks on the gen1 so far and only found one exhaust gap tight once] .
And one is one too many.
Given the mileage on @kevin314 's bike, the fact that service history is unknown, and the high likelihood that the adjustment is over due. I find it imperative to prioritize a valve adjustment ASAP.

Will he have other issues to address. Probably, but this needs to be done. And it needs to be done in short order.

2006 Ninja500R Purchased new July 2006; 0 miles. Miles as of January 2019; 102,137. It's a GO bike, not a SHOW bike.
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post #25 of 59 (permalink) Old 7-7-2019, 9:01 AM
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It’s a brand new YUASA battery I bought from a Kawasaki dealership, the kind that comes with the acid in a separate container and I let it drain in. 12V 150mA battery tender also from the dealership, had it on there for almost a full day. That knocking I keep going on and on about seems to be coming from underneath the crank case cover, that’s why I asked about the starter clutch.
again, numbers off the Yuasa battery please?

DO NOT open it up to check for acid levels as was suggested earlier in the thread. It is likely a sealed type battery ...which is why I asked (now twice) for the battery model numbers in order to confirm the exact model and whether it IS actually correct for the EX.

@Kevinl314 you have a multimeter?

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