Need help with engine knock - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 8-17-2019, 7:06 PM Thread Starter
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Need help with engine knock

Greetings to all. I have a low knock on the engine on the right, where the clutch basket is. Well heard at low 700-900 RPM. When riding a motorcycle at 4000-5000 RPM, I feel a strong vibration from engine. Now I completely disassembled the engine, in the service they say that my primary chain has a weak stretch, and if I change it my knocking problem will be solved. I measured the chain according to the manual, it is within normal limits, but if you hold it horizontally with pins up and down, then it sags 3-4 cm (1.575 in). Is this normal? Please tell me if anyone ever changed the primary chain and whether the engine could knock because of it. I canít upload videos and photos as I donít have 10 posts yet.

P.S. Sorry for my english
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 8-18-2019, 11:13 AM
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The idle speed is not supposed to be so low. The specifications mark that it must be between 1250 and 1500 RPM.

If the idle is very low, the knock you hear is caused by compression of the engine fighting against the inertia of the flywheel that keeps the engine running.

As for the vibration, I have no way of giving you accurate information. Maybe if you give us more information about the model year and mileage of your motorcycle, some of the most experienced members can help you.

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 8-18-2019, 7:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorge moros View Post
The idle speed is not supposed to be so low. The specifications mark that it must be between 1250 and 1500 RPM.

If the idle is very low, the knock you hear is caused by compression of the engine fighting against the inertia of the flywheel that keeps the engine running.
At 1200 rpm, there is also a knock. At 700 - 900 rpm it is more powerful. I listened same engine on Kawasaki ER-5 (1996 year, mileage 48000 km) at 700 rpm and its worked very smoothly.

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Originally Posted by jorge moros View Post
As for the vibration, I have no way of giving you accurate information. Maybe if you give us more information about the model year and mileage of your motorcycle, some of the most experienced members can help you.
My Kawasaki EX500D (GPZ500S) 1995, mileage 53000 km.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 2:51 PM
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If the issue persists in neutral then I doubt it could be the chain. Although if there is a lot of front/back flex, it will only be a matter of time before the chain is done, so I would suggest replacing it.

But I doubt its the issue as you mention it happens at idle.

When you say you "completely disassembled the engine" what does that mean? Did you take the engine out and strip it down to the bone? just the head off? or just valve service? how far did this go.

What year/mileage is the bike?

Since you said clutch basket, I saw this video not too long ago. Does it sound like this? maybe could put you in the right direction:
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gvm666 View Post
At 1200 rpm, there is also a knock. At 700 - 900 rpm it is more powerful. I listened same engine on Kawasaki ER-5 (1996 year, mileage 48000 km) at 700 rpm and its worked very smoothly.


My Kawasaki EX500D (GPZ500S) 1995, mileage 53000 km.
The engine, due to the extreme rotation (540ļ or 1.5 rotations) between firing impulses, should never be run below about 1000 RPM - especially under any type of load. The crankshaft is speeding up and slowing down rather radically at that excessively low RPM. It was not engineered to run so low. That can cause the crank speed changes to cause backlash in chains as well as gears.



A knock at higher RPM does indicate a potential problem, and it may not be the primary chain - in your case it does not appear to be. Does the knock change at all when clutch lever is in versus out? That would point you toward clutch and not chain. Does the knock change while accelerating, running at neutral throttle and on the overrun? That again is something which must be considered.



The behavior of the knock can tell you as much, if not more than the location, type or loudness of the knock.

I finally figured out why I like Ducatis: With their exhaust note and dry clutch, they sound almost like a Guzzi!
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 5:32 PM
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hi guys. just an observation from someone who has a high mileage. GPX/EX a lot of enquiries on this forum are from new members, who may not always understand how these bikes work. if you come to the [EX] from a previous bike that wasn't a EX they can be extremely frightening in there antics. note these bikes. are noisy. lumpy. vibrate a lot. and emit strange noises. that convince you the engine is either going to explode or shake it's self to bits. but not to worry too much it won't once set up properly.

for starters as it has been said the engine rotation is odd being a 180 degree crank but having opposed pistons. so it fires in quick succession in 180 degrees then has to revolve 540 degrees before it fires again. this makes it lumpy, vibrate and quite noisy as the crank struggles to keep turning only being able to do so by the weight of the flywheel and the balancer weights in front of the crank. once revolving everything smooths out somewhat but still has a tendency to vibrate. this is made worse the more mileage it has under it's belt.

unlike some bikes that are more precise it lacks the refinement of any form of vibration dampening such things as primary chain are not adjustable and require a complete engine strip to replace so they get left, also many of the bushes in the engine are phosphor bronze and these wear out over time. adding play to any that is there already [as in the video above] timing chains rattle a either a little or a lot depends on how far the chain slack is before the front adjuster goes another click.

everything on the engine rattles a little. the more mileage the more noise. there are steps one can make to ease the situation never slug out the bike at low revs in high gear. keep the tick over above 1100 rpm do regular maintenance valve adjustments cable adjustments and such like. done well these bikes will last a long time you have to understand what noises are normal and what are not this takes time its no Honda and will never sound or feel like one.

I am not trying to say there isn't something wrong just that on average it's not knowing what is wrong. the old adage for these bikes when running well is they sound like a sewing machine well if you have heard a sewing machine you will know they are neither quite or smooth.

Last edited by yorkie; 10-16-2019 at 5:35 PM.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 10:28 AM
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All the above is true,
I fear you have created more work that you wished for/ I hope you did not remove the head. if so you must do a recap of the head and cylinders.
Read my piece in the how too section for details

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 9:26 AM
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Originally Posted by fog View Post
All the above is true,

FOG

Really FOG,?
I'm surprised you have not informed that this engine is a 270 and not a 180 (both pistons opposite) or a 360 (both pistons side by side).

There are many reasons why Kawi chose to go with the 270, but for starters it vibrates less,(rocking couple) and can have a smaller fly wheel and smaller balancer shaft, (both equating to less weight) than a 180 or 360 as only 1 piston is ever stationary at a time during a full 720 degree rotation, the other is always on the move.

The same 270 configuration engine is used by many motorcycle manufacturers, Triumph, Norton,Yamaha,Honda, and even KTM, to name a few, though KTM being KTM had to do things different and made their engine 289 which mimics exactly the KTM V Twin exhaust note.

There's nothing odd about this engine at all, it's just the same as any other 270 parallel twin.
As I've said before, the 270 crank angle is what gives this (and many other) bikes their distinctive exhaust note.

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 4:32 PM
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Not sure where you are getting you're information, but its incorrect. All models of the ex500 have a 180 crank. The ex500 was designed in the mid 80's, but 270 cranks didn't start to appear until the mid to late 90's. According to Wikipedia, the Yamaha TRX850 (1996) was the first production bike to feature a 270 crank.
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 5:24 PM
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well I have only one comment to make on this. if the EX500 gen 1 [like mine] does not have a 180 crank why are the triggers for the ignition 180 degrees apart and not off set to either 270 or 90 degrees.
plus the cam sprockets are clearly marked IN and EX on both sprockets either side when I piston is at [or near] the top of the stroke the marks show the inlet mark to the rear and EX to the front. turn the engine until the other piston is at the top [or near] the marks line up perfectly only reversed. this suggest to me 180 degrees of crank angle is correct. perhaps FOG could enlighten us.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 9:59 PM
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Just pull the plugs an turn the crank you will shortly see itís a180 craNk

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