Rear disk brake weak? - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 3:44 AM Thread Starter
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Rear disk brake weak?

Hello everyone,

Did a purge, got new pads on the rear (not sintered) and it is not doing much even when I put some strength on it.

At max it "sits" the bikem I mean it deeps the rear shock a little and brake a little but would never block the rear wheel that's for sure.

What can I expect from the rear brake with sintered pads and a good purge (normally?)

Thanks!
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 5:08 AM
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Even with organic pads you should be able to lock up the rear wheel if you so choose. There is something else not right besides the pads.
Master cylinder?
Slave cylinder?
Brake line?

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 8:52 AM
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I'll go with the inevitable ring of dirt on the circumference of pistons and seals. It inhibits free and complete movement of the pistons.

Disassemble, pop and clean the "ring around the pistons", ditto with the corrosion underneath the seals on the caliper "lands".
Either replace the seals or frequently they can be simply cleaned, reinstalled and reused.

I'll forego posting pics, but trust me, the ring and corrosion will be there.

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 9:20 AM
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good keep it that way it may save you A$$ some day. rear brass are only for hill holding at a stop.

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 9:40 AM
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Poor advise....I disagree. Leave them be, they will become progressively worse and inop given time. Eventually a safety issue....a reality... ever hear of brakes *binding*? Or *freezing* entirely?

Fully OP's call on his preferences. Personally, on my equipment I want all functions to be fully operational when called upon.

Fix them, use the rear when needed...when YOU deem necessary according to YOUR riding style and abilities.

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 10:02 AM
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They would also need to be properly maintained as to not create a dragging issue.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 10:17 AM
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agreed...my comment "binding", yours "dragging" .....different words = same meaning

Furthermore does @Geddie intend to pass British MOT with a compromised rear brake?

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Last edited by ducatiman; 6-16-2019 at 10:29 AM.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 12:36 PM
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^ Oh OK, I thought you were talking about something else that I wasn't familiar with. I was wondering how that "dragging" response came to me all of a sudden.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 2:07 PM
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I can easily lock the rear brake and its crap. So I usually never use it, only in emergency.

But I never managed to lock the front... But had a situations where I would slide if my EX had better brakes...
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toniplavna View Post
I can easily lock the rear brake and its crap. So I usually never use it, only in emergency.
OK...now imagine if the rear you depend on for emergency were compromised, and unable to utilize...much like the OP has described. What then? Ride slower to begin with? Or (God forbid) crash due to insufficient braking power?

My point is, its critical to have that rear stopping power in reserve WHEN you need it, used properly. For that to happen, it must be operational, repaired, serviced, whatever. Fix the damn thing.....don't let it live in a half state of operation only to degrade further with time and disuse.

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 4:50 PM
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Almost every expert at the track removed a large portion of their rear brake pads to reduce the swept area to prevent locking, even under panic applications , of course they had full use of the front.
The EX has sufficient front brake power to lift the rear, or certainly reduce the traction of it. too much power in the rear can cause premature lockup and induce a slide that wasn't intended.
Thats why I said good, not to mean to not repair a defective brake

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fog View Post
Almost every expert at the track removed a large portion of their rear brake pads to reduce the swept area to prevent locking, even under panic applications , of course they had full use of the front.
The EX has sufficient front brake power to lift the rear, or certainly reduce the traction of it. too much power in the rear can cause premature lockup and induce a slide that wasn't intended.
Thats why I said good, not to mean to not repair a defective brake
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c'mon man

"good keep it that way" verbatim from your post #4 in this thread

I'm seeing OP's impeded brake performance issue from a street/safety perspective, not through the prism of a balls to the wall, win at all cost (or crash trying) track racing scenario.

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Last edited by ducatiman; 6-16-2019 at 10:06 PM.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-16-2019, 11:16 PM
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A bit of over simplification perhaps but a weak rear brake will not get you into trouble, certainly not as fast as a strong one will

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-17-2019, 6:28 AM
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Good brakes don't cause crashes, riders do. Just my opinion. Sometimes full rear braking power can come in handy.

Total discloser:
I just happen to be a rider that doesn't go into panic mode if an unintentional rear lock up occurs. But I know, that's just me.


Bottom line:
I'm an advocate to have both brakes fully functional.

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-17-2019, 7:30 AM
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@Gedde how much distance has been ridden since the work was done?
In a perfect world with professionally resurfaced rotors the full benefit of a up graded pad and normal maintenance can usually be felt within a few miles. On a grooved and previously embedded rotor (not resurfaced) that felt effect can take considerably longer.
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-17-2019, 7:48 AM
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^+1
I didn't even consider that. Usually takes about 100 miles of stop and go riding before new pads bed themselves in and become fully effective.

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-17-2019, 9:10 AM
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As noted - give it some time.

The rear brake is more "supplemental" than "instrumental" for any serious stopping IMO.

You definitely want it to work properly, but if you are relying on it for anything more than slow-speed maneuvering and braking or supplemental braking at higher speeds you are heading for trouble.

The more you need it, the less effective it is.

I use it on occasion, but if any serious braking is required I put my full concentration on what the front is doing. I make sure I always have good tires (properly inflated), good pads, and a fully maintained front brake system. If I can't haul it down using that to the best of my ability the rear isn't going to save me...

If you are really applying the front firmly and progressively the rear wheel contact is getting less, and so is the rear wheel's ability to slow you.

Locking may not be a big issue for some, but getting the rear out of line reduces your ability to release the brakes completely and maneuver around an obstacle instead of trying to stop short of it.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-17-2019, 9:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
I'll go with the inevitable ring of dirt on the circumference of pistons and seals. It inhibits free and complete movement of the pistons.

Disassemble, pop and clean the "ring around the pistons", ditto with the corrosion underneath the seals on the caliper "lands".
Either replace the seals or frequently they can be simply cleaned, reinstalled and reused.

I'll forego posting pics, but trust me, the ring and corrosion will be there.
I have been cleaning brakes on the 600's and let me tell you that there is a "LOAD" of crap inside the piston bore and tons of builup on thease things. Pop em out and give them a bgood clean.

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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-17-2019, 9:29 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fog View Post
good keep it that way it may save you A$$ some day. rear brass are only for hill holding at a stop.

FOG
You know what? I agree with you... The engine brake is quite strong on the EX so I guess my "deeping" rear brake is enough just to "seat" the bike.

I will leave it as is and try it.

I go to a track day in two weeks so will tell you then my impressions.

Thanks!

G
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-17-2019, 9:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gedde View Post
You know what? I agree with you... The engine brake is quite strong on the EX so I guess my "deeping" rear brake is enough just to "seat" the bike.

I will leave it as is and try it.

I go to a track day in two weeks so will tell you then my impressions.

Thanks!

G

Remember that if the seals go bad due to the crust and crud on the piston yuo could face a brake fluid leak at the read wheel. Its probably better to remove them if your not going to fix them, les chance of a leak.

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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-17-2019, 9:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinl7778 View Post
I have been cleaning brakes on the 600's and let me tell you that there is a "LOAD" of crap inside the piston bore and tons of builup on thease things. Pop em out and give them a bgood clean.
left unchecked, out and out dangerous
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-17-2019, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
left unchecked, out and out dangerous
That is exactly what I have been dealing with on the 98 and 94 ZX600E as I try to get one working set out of four seizd up sets.

I would go as far as to recomend stainless hoeses ans they seam to come with better banjo fettings. I think some of the rust colored corosion is from the inside of the banjos.

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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 6-17-2019, 11:16 AM
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Of course, you don't know what they look like till you open them up, though lousy performance is a clear indicator. Which is why I advocate cleaning and repairing to both regain full function and avoid further degradation.

Hey, what steps to take, when and how far is fully at owners option.....

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