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post #26 of 56 (permalink) Old 6-19-2009, 7:05 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

I'm about to try out my home made two jar manometer.
Here's the question -
Why do people suggest using Automatic Transmission Fluid rather than motor oil?

I would imagine in the freak accident that the fluid gets sucked into the engine, oil wouldn't be to harmful. What advantage would ATF have over motor oil?
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post #27 of 56 (permalink) Old 6-19-2009, 8:15 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

ATF also wouldn't be harmful to get sucked in, although with a two-jar manometer you have no chance of sucking anything into the carbs.

It's a difference in weight/viscosity I guess. Oil moves easier than water (no surface tension), and ATF is probably easier than oil.

Just use oil or ATF, whatever you have on hand.
post #28 of 56 (permalink) Old 6-19-2009, 8:35 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

ATF is lighter viscosity (usually 5W) and readily reacts to vacuum changes AND...bright red color easier too see,


motion pro uses blue these days (don't know what liquid it is though) and my ancient, old carb stix use poison , environmentally un-friendly mercury. both those have same attributes aforementioned.

oh, the motion pros actually feature adjustable dampening to index and control, too.

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post #29 of 56 (permalink) Old 7-7-2009, 6:32 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

hi, just curious: how effective is it to sync the carbs "by ear"? Can you just turn the screw while listening to the idle, to see if it's getting rougher/smoother?
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post #30 of 56 (permalink) Old 7-7-2009, 7:16 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Open the airbox and remove the filter then with a tube in the carb throat to your ear listen to the hiss at idle. then adjust each carb till the hiss is equal.
Did cars this way for years.

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post #31 of 56 (permalink) Old 7-8-2009, 2:10 AM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Thanks FOG. I'm not sure if this is somewhere else or the pics got deleted, but I"m not sure where the screw is for adjustment. An earlier post says "between the carbs adjusted from above with the screwdriver held vertically". Does this mean the tank must come off for the adjustment? Is there an alternative? Thanks

Alex
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post #32 of 56 (permalink) Old 7-8-2009, 2:02 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by asfarley
"between the carbs adjusted from above with the screwdriver held vertically". Does this mean the tank must come off for the adjustment? Is there an alternative?
Just pull the tank and look down at the carbs and you'll see it. Pulling the tank really isn't that big of a deal. Just follow the instructions and have a friend help you if it's still got any significant amount of gas in it to prevent sloshing and dropping your tank.

And while your tank is out, install a fuel filter.

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post #33 of 56 (permalink) Old 7-28-2009, 12:35 AM
 
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Re: How to sync carbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman
ATF is lighter viscosity (usually 5W) and readily reacts to vacuum changes AND...bright red color easier too see,


motion pro uses blue these days...
I've heard of using brake fluid with blue food color dye for cc'ing cylinder heads, would work well in this application as well. Of course, you could use any color you like.
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post #34 of 56 (permalink) Old 8-13-2009, 4:37 AM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by preninja
I've heard of using brake fluid with blue food color dye for cc'ing cylinder heads, would work well in this application as well. Of course, you could use any color you like.
just pee in it.

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post #35 of 56 (permalink) Old 8-13-2009, 11:35 AM
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Re: How to sync carbs

I figured out a method to make the two-bottle setup a little easier for me:

I was having a hard time getting the adjustment just right; I'd get the bottles equaled out and THINK I had the carbs synced, but a few seconds later they'd be uneven again. So what I did is adjust one carb way higher than the other, which sucked all the oil to one bottle. When the first bottle was sucked dry, the other one started sucking air, which essentially turned the oil into a frappe (totally infused it with little bubbles).

Then I evened the sync back out, and as the oil passed from one bottle to the next it was easy to see the speed and direction by watching the bubbles flow through the connecting tube. Get the bottles even, tweak the screw until the bubbles in the connector hold still; voila. You're done.

caveat: Make sure you do like the instructions say, and ensure that your total volume of oil is less than a whole bottle, or else you're gonna suck oil through your carbs. Which wouldn't be a disaster, but if it's easy to avoid, there's no reason to let it happen.

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post #36 of 56 (permalink) Old 8-13-2009, 10:14 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by asfarley
hi, just curious: how effective is it to sync the carbs "by ear"? Can you just turn the screw while listening to the idle, to see if it's getting rougher/smoother?
I used a vacuum guage but it fluctuated too much so I tuned it by ear listening for the smoothest running and then checked it and it was right on. The amount that you turn the sync screw is very small. If you haven't messed with the sync screw yet you should be very close already.
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post #37 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 4:29 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Hello folks,

I recently checked and re-adjusted my valve clearances.
Afterwards, the bike ran on a higher idle.
I let it warm up completely.
Then I adjusted the "idle" screw.
Now this is the thing, the "idle" screw that I adjusted was on a kind of throttle mechanism/throttle body with a spring below the screw. I turned it very slowly, revving the bike and letting it settle to see what it did. In one direction it increased the idle, in the other it refused to idle. I eventually found a "sweet spot" by listening to the engine and bringing that rev counter to between 900 and 1000rpm.

Since then, on a cold start, it will only start if I use the choke. Once warmed it's fine. Even after starting from cold, if I let it run just one minute and the shut the choke off, it's fine. Previously in mid-winter I never needed the choke at all. SO now, I'm just wondering, did I actually adjust the "idle" screw or was I a dikwad and fiddled with the carb sync screw instead(thinking it was the idle screw)

Now if somebody can take a photo of a carb that you got on a work bench and please just point the "idle" screw from the "sync" screw, I'll be most delighted. I thank you in advance to put up a picture with two arrows, one pointing idle screw and the other sync screw. I understand diagrams. I do not get 10000 word descriptions.

Cheers

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post #38 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 4:36 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Set your idle ~12-1300 RPMs. 900 is too low. The idle screw can be turned by hand; the sync screws are two phillips heads that can only be reached by removing the seat/tank. If you didn't need a screw driver, you turned the idle screw.

It's normal to require choke from cold start.

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post #39 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 4:39 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

here's a fun loving diagram anyway.

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post #40 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 5:40 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Hi Fetherstone ,

Ok, so as suspected I was a 'dikwad' => I fiddled the sync screw. I had the seat and tank off in order to get the valve cover off and adjust the valves, I was looking top down on the carbs. If that picture you put up is exactly that of an EX500 carb, then it's certain I turned the sync screw.

Now to get this right again, I think I should remove the tank and seat again(just hear me out.....) after the engine has been warmed up. Then I should turn the sync screw (which I thought was the idle screw) until the "sweet spot" where the engine sounds best is found. Previously the absolute sweet spot made the engine run higher than usual idle. I will try to find where it runs smoothest. This should indicate optimum performance from BOTH cylinders.

Then if the idle is higher, and I suspect it will be, I will THEN go to the correct "idle" screw below the carb and reduce it to between 1000 and 1300 rpm as you indicated.

Do you agree with my theory on this, keeping in mind I haven't got my carbtune/carb stick/home made sync device. I know it won't be 100% but if you listen carefully, you can tell when an engine is really smooth or when it's just ticking over.

Thanks so much already for the precise feedback with pic....I didn't expect a reply so soon!

Cheers/Vernonfr35<br /><br />
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post #41 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 5:52 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Yes, your procedure is generally correct. The idle is relatively inconsequential for carb tuning, the sync and fuel screws are more important. Adjust them, then set the idle to spec.

However, the difference between close and perfect when carb syncing is sometimes just the weight of the screw driver on the screw. It's very finicky. You can get pretty close by ear, but if you've never synced carbs with a tool before, doing it without one is challenging.

A manometer is a really simple device and fortunately you only have two cylinders. Good tutorial here for building one.

Oh, and if possible do it with an auxiliary fuel tank (Got a spare lawn mower hangen' around?).

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post #42 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 7:13 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

I concur with Fetherston. Read what he said.
post #43 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-8-2009, 11:39 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

I apologize if this isn't the right area to ask this. I just bought a 1992 ex500 with 5300ish miles for $600, it has been sitting a year without running. I'm mechanically inclined and knew some issues were there. First it wouldn't stay running when he started it, it actually sounded decent for the short time it did run. The tank was rusted..no sweat kreem liner is solving that..I cleaned one carb easily thank to all of you, and your perfect videos and discussions. The problem is with my carb that has all the throttle gear....whoever owner it broke one of the screw corners off and JB welded it or something. The break is on the top side where the diapham sits...is it fixable or am I boned? If boned...any thought on where to get another carb without getting my wallet cleaned out.

Thank for any help you can give me.

Happy Gilmore
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post #44 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-8-2009, 11:54 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Not as long as it holds the diaphragm securely in place.

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post #45 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-9-2009, 12:01 AM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Thank you kind sir I might have doubted that answer....but since it was you Mr. FOG I shall take that as gospel What adhesive or bonding agent would you recommend?
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post #46 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-9-2009, 12:59 AM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Technically the wrong place to ask. Make a thread in Troubleshooting and maybe show us pictures of what you're working with.
post #47 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-9-2009, 9:35 AM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOG
Open the airbox and remove the filter then with a tube in the carb throat to your ear listen to the hiss at idle. then adjust each carb till the hiss is equal.

FOG
+1
(It is only two carbs, anyway!)
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post #48 of 56 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 12:53 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

Hi Folks,

For those that use Morgan Carbtune or want to use that, lots of video on Youtube to guide you.
This one for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYgN2-96Ik0

What they don't detail is where specifically on the carb, you need to hook up the vacuum hose.
If somebody can show that on the EX500 carb with a picture and arrow it would help.

Cheers

Cheers/Vernonfr35<br /><br />
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post #49 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-15-2010, 2:42 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

I tried syncing my carbs last night and it left me a little confused. I did the two bottle method, and at idle the left carb pulled very slightly more than the right. Reving it up to about 3k reversed this and the right carb pulled quite a bit more than the left, up until about 4.5k when they balanced out perfectly and the fluid stopped completely. Reving up to about 5.5 and higher the fluid started moving right again, but slowly. What exactly am I shooting for in this situation? I know idle is pretty irrelevant when it comes to balancing, but I do about 50/50 street/highway commuting, going about 4-5k on street and 6-7k on highway. As it is now, it's balanced for my street speeds but right carb pulls more at highway speeds...
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post #50 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-15-2010, 8:35 PM
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Re: How to sync carbs

You'll never get it perfect. A small change in the bottles' levels at different ranges is inevitable. I sync mine at 4k RPM though, not at idle. Idle is too sloppy and irregular to get a good reading.

Frankly I find the whole procedure to be nearly useless unless there is some massive syncing needing to be done, most likely from someone who didn't know what the screw was supposed to be when they were fiddling around with or cleaning the carbs. You're not going to notice any difference, so don't worry about it.
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