Project Super Sport comments thread - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
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post #1 of 108 (permalink) Old 9-4-2018, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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Project Super Sport comments thread

I got the idea to do this from Saabnut and his "big bad rebuild" thread. Having a separate comments thread for people to ask questions and/or comment on what has been posted to the PSS thread satisfies two things.



My want to keep the build thread comment free until the end, as well as allow viewers/readers/members to chime in when they have a question or comment. I will check back a few times a week to answer questions.



So, for the future, if you have a specific question about something, feel free to ask it here. If you can copy and paste the passage from the thread into a quote, that could be helpful as well. That way we both know what your question is specifically related to.



My approach has been to break the project down into 3 phases. Teardown is phase 1 and is mostly complete now. Repairs is phase 2 and is where I currently am. Phase 3 will be the build which will terminate once the body work is painted and installed.



As I've previously stated, I have a plan for this build. I won't reveal what the end product will look like until the end. All other questions are welcomed.


Fire when ready.....sean


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post #2 of 108 (permalink) Old 9-5-2018, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apriliarider View Post

As I've previously stated, I have a plan for this build. I won't reveal what the end product will look like until the end. All other questions are welcomed.

Fire when ready.....sean
Heh, I know the direction your project is going, but I'll keep my mouth shut and let it be a surprise for everyone else.
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post #3 of 108 (permalink) Old 9-6-2018, 8:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Saabnut View Post
Heh, I know the direction your project is going, but I'll keep my mouth shut and let it be a surprise for everyone else.
Thanks man...much appreciated!...sean


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post #4 of 108 (permalink) Old 9-6-2018, 9:02 PM Thread Starter
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From ducatiman in the PSS thread:

Quote:
If I may be allowed a correction.....the large, upper jet is in fact the starter circuit jet #70 , the smaller jet below it in the 2nd pic is, in fact, the main jet. It simply presses in, is "o-ringed" and slotted, held in placed by the metal tang pictured.

Any minor imperfection to the starter jet is just that...minor.
My apologies for not addressing your comment sooner, but as we already spoke about it....


For those not involved, yes, we actually spoke. You know, the old fashioned way, on a phone? Really.



I was standing outside Factory Pro in San Rafael when ducatiman and I talked briefly. He informed me then of my incorrect identification of the starter jet....right after the guys at Factory Pro told me the same.



My thanks to you for sharing your expertise with both me and the forum. I truly thought I was looking at the main jet as that is how the Mikuni BSTs on my old Gixxer are set up.



When ducatiman and I talked, he told me where to find the main jet, like in his post to the PSS thread. I duly found said main jet to report the size back.



Needless to say, I'd already bought a kit from Factory Pro containing the same jet. Funnily enough, it is smaller (leaner) than the OEM jet. The Factory Pro website also recommends the smaller than OEM jet for tuning.



Not that I needed any confirmation of what ducatiman had already asked me get. I was pretty much there on a mission to track down all that he asked me to get for the rebuild on the PSS carbs. The one thing I really went to Factory Pro for, they didn't have.



I'll have a post up in the PSS thread regarding that in the near future as I've had to order them from an online parts dealer. Hopefully, they will require no further work to get them where they need to be once they arrive here.....sean


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post #5 of 108 (permalink) Old 9-10-2018, 3:05 PM
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Just acquired another set of Duc/Mikuni for salvage parts, bowls should clean up nice. They are there if need be.

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post #6 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-3-2018, 6:50 PM
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These Ducati/Mikuni carbs belong to @Apriliarider. I've been assigned to "do 'em up".
Ok, they are nasty, no denying that, but nothing major.

I'm just starting prelim, 1st go 'round stuff. Note contrast in bodies (but not near completed as yet)

I'll spare y'all pics of internal nasty areas, unless you want them.

Split, disassembled with minimum fanfare, save a frozen pilot screw, which I safely removed (big sigh of relief there)
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File Type: jpg seanduc1.jpg (111.3 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc8.jpg (121.5 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc9.jpg (102.0 KB, 35 views)
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Last edited by ducatiman; 10-3-2018 at 10:45 PM.
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post #7 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-3-2018, 8:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post

I'll spare y'all pics of internal nasty areas, unless you want them.

Oh we want 'em alright! The more gruesome the better....just like the evening newsLoL....thanks for the update.....sean


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post #8 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-4-2018, 9:17 AM
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I'll start some procedures on small components today, as the 3rd pic indicates there's a huge quantity of stuff involved, whether by hand or machine all will be micro cleaned, as close to "as new" condition as I can achieve.

These are the jet blocks....they hold start, pilot and main jets. Hey, there's gaskets under all that white powder! And more powder UNDER the gaskets, too. The jet block/gasket/carb body seal *must* be concise here, no leaky.

I'll surmise this bike lived outdoors at some point.
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Last edited by ducatiman; 10-5-2018 at 9:45 AM.
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post #9 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-4-2018, 8:32 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
I'll surmise this bike lived outdoors at some point.
I've concluded the same. Also concluded the bike lived in the Monterey area for most of its life. Salt air will cause all manner of corrosion, like the stuff I pictured on the wheel in the main PSS thread.



However, I concluded it must have been under a carport or other source of cover because the corrosion just isn't consistent.



Then again, with as much oil and suspension fluid that was leaking it may have prevented some amount of corrosion from taking hold. Really. It was that bad.


I'm just glad to see some progress....it's disheartening when all you see is the repair list getting longer rather than shorter.....sean


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post #10 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-4-2018, 10:59 PM
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as far as carbs are concerned, i think our pm's tonight will resolve the last of the minor issues i've encountered. detail, detail, detail, decisions.

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #11 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-5-2018, 7:49 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
as far as carbs are concerned, i think our pm's tonight will resolve the last of the minor issues i've encountered. detail, detail, detail, decisions.
I got home from work and found all the PMs.....Answered them all....I think. Lemme know if I missed anything ....sean


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post #12 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-5-2018, 8:07 PM
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One more from this evening. A long day for me with great progress. Cleaning phase almost complete, just bodies and slides left. Assembly phase next.

Some sample and before/after pics. I don't want to hog the thread here, though.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg seanduc10.jpg (97.7 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc11.jpg (100.9 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc12.jpg (116.7 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc14.jpg (80.1 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc13.jpg (100.1 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc15.jpg (102.6 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc16.jpg (121.1 KB, 22 views)
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Last edited by ducatiman; 10-5-2018 at 10:02 PM.
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post #13 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-6-2018, 12:29 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
Some sample and before/after pics. I don't want to hog the thread here, though.
Oh by all means, hog away! There isn't much else going on with the PSS at the moment so your progress is the focal point.



Thanks for the pics.....and yes, the bowls look fantastic

...nearly new. Compared to what they looked like when I opened them up, I'm ecstatic. Looking forward to seeing the rest.......sean


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post #14 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-6-2018, 1:16 PM
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Smart Mikuni designed full access to transition ports for inspection/cleaning ...these carbs, though tricky if you intend to "go all the way", have been designed with service in mind.

the 3 tiny holes you see in the pic are the transition ports, above 3 larger holes the all important circuits....but there is more, much more
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post #15 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-6-2018, 9:24 PM
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Today, I'm performing some bench experimentation and trial to offer a solution to a long time, controversial, Ducati/Mikuni carb issue, premature, brass needle jet wear resulting in uncontrollable, rich running. Nickle plated, Factory Pro needle jets have been the fix to date but are NLA. I believe I've found both the root problem, and a reasonable solution.....adding a tiny spacer..... pending actual on-bike testing. All indications point to success.

The cut slide is NOT Seans...sacrificed from my spares in order to facilitate some visual aid for the trial.

Sean will understand the photo's, discerning between with/without my spacer. We can discuss further if necessary.

1st pic is standard Mikuni setup, without spacer, needle preloaded due to the "step" 2nd with my spacer, the needle straight as an arrow 3rd the sacrificed slide cut-off 4th with spacer and the "found" carb washer, which seats perfectly flat, assuring a true, stable, horizontal needle mount point.

long day, i'm beat, signing off. NY Yankees vs Boston division playoffs on.
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File Type: jpg seanduc22.jpg (103.1 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc21.JPG (74.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc23.jpg (119.4 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc20.jpg (70.1 KB, 14 views)

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post #16 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-8-2018, 1:21 PM
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I physically correlated the needle preload/tilt to the *exact area* of wear/ovaling on Seans original carb needle jet. Premature needle jet "ovaling" is a chronic, widely known problem in older model carbed Ducati-land using BDST38. The end result of the problem is unexplainable rich running, black spark plugs, loss in midrange, usually 10, 15, 20 thousand miles on.

I still can't believe Mikuni allowed this "error" in manufacture.

After much thought, deliberation and experimentation ...I've reached a viable, cheap, permanent, serviceable and simple solution. Though working deep within the slide is very tricky, its doable. Non-invasive, does not require any grinding, cutting or such to the slide. A simple addition of a strategically located spacer, thus offsetting the manufactured "step", eliminating the resultant needle tilt/preload and thus...premature needle jet wear and eventual rich running.

Sean and I have conversed, we've agreed I'll apply the solution to his carbs (mine next!)

10,000 miles from now, an exam of his new needle jets would prove *very* interesting.

Whew! Now that this is conquered, moving forward into the assembly stage.

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #17 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-9-2018, 1:33 PM
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4 hours assembling and setup this morning. All done, fully functional, lookin' much better than when they got here

pics, before/after and innards

i'm satisfied they will be functional. Full refurb and my slide mod done, too. I think we got that one solved, needles exiting slide straight and true...a full success there.
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File Type: jpg seanduc1.jpg (111.3 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc24.jpg (99.3 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg seanduc27.jpg (99.4 KB, 32 views)
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post #18 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-9-2018, 8:40 PM Thread Starter
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Those look brand new!! Looking forward to being able to install them and get this project making smoke noise!!......PM'd you @ducatiman. .......sean


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post #19 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-9-2018, 9:10 PM
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There is some minor evidence of long term corrosion damage, in and out.

I can't claim actual show quality...but can say they are clean, functional and presentable. And setup with great care, ready to bolt up and hit the button.

Darn...I forgot an inline rail filter (as the factory supplies). Its missing but I know the Kawasaki rail filter is perfectly usable.

Got them in stock. I'll plug one into the fuel rail before I ship...on me.

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post #20 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-9-2018, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Darn...I forgot an inline rail filter (as the factory supplies). Its missing but I know the Kawasaki rail filter is perfectly usable.

Got them in stock. I'll plug one into the fuel rail before I ship...on me.
All Good man. I thank you for that...my plan had been to install an inline filter of the sintered brass element variety upon assembly and installation of the fuel tank....there was no filter present when I removed the tank and lines.


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post #21 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-10-2018, 11:03 AM
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somebody was deep in there removing stuff.

Another suggestion...as the petcock is not readily accessible (tank must be lifted to access) ADDING a simple inline, secondary petcock in an accessible position may be desirable.

Pic...mine is the little round, red knob...I think around $8? Works perfect, I'm able to quickly turn fuel off or on.
Default position OFF for overnight or longer sitting.

Also highly suggest the airbox separation I mentioned. Either the electrical or carb/airbox can be quickly serviced by itself rather than whole, complete disassembly demanded by the factory supplied configuration.

Really speeds up service time.

Both these are highly suggested, time proven.

You too @jackal on your 400.
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post #22 of 108 (permalink) Old 11-5-2018, 8:21 PM Thread Starter
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Monterey-Pacific Grove-Carmel Valley

Just returned this morning from a 5 day trip to the Monterey Peninsula. We stayed in Pacific Grove which is just past the city of Monterey and Cannery Row. Our hotel was in a part of Pacific Grove called Lover's Point which is in my mind, the place I want to spend the rest of my days should I one day be able to afford a house there.



This was the view from our hotel room:



While there, we found some local secrets. Places the locals go for food that are just knock your socks off good. One place, we already knew about so that was cool to find out it was a locals favorite. The others...well....I won't throw the names out there because we were confided in. Suffice it to say I had the best old world baked bread, pastry and desserts to be had on this coast.



Our routine was to go get a sandwich for lunch at one these local favorites and then drive to a spot by the beach and eat lunch. We did this on the road in front of our hotel one day, then 17 Mile Drive the next. We were very near Pebble Beach golf links but closer to Spanish Bay which is every bit as beautiful. We ate at Lover's Point beach on our final day after going to Big Sur in the morning.






All in all, it was a very relaxing and wonderful vacation....and I want to go back!!! So gorgeous there in Pacific Grove. I love it there. Don't think I didn't go do anything motorcycle related because it wouldn't be a complete vacation if I didn't.



On Saturday we finally made it to the Jameson motorcycle museum in Pacific Grove. We'd tried a few times before but never seemed to be able to find the place open. We finally succeeded this time. We went in and were greeted at the door by a guy named Web. He gave us the nickel tour as it is a fairly small establishment.



There were all manner of vintage motorcycles, ranging from BMWs of the 70s and 80s to Harley Davidsons from the early 1900s. There was a smattering of British and Japanese iron mixed in from 60s to the 80s and 90s. Most interesting were the early Harleys, one of which was prepped to go to the Cannon Ball Run. According to Web, everything started and ran. Also among the more interesting bikes were a number of Norton Commandos. I counted at least 3 with the latest being an 850 of the middle to late 70s variety. Must have been one of the last is my guess.



Most interesting of all, was not a motorcycle but a tip we got from Web as we were leaving. He told us of another museum, one we hadn't heard of. He told us about a guy by the name of Talbott who was a winery owner but started collecting motorcycles. He told us there were some significant Ducatis there as well as a few race bikes. He gave us directions to Carmel Valley and told us we would know we found the place by all the old motorcycles hanging about. He wasn't kidding. http://www.mototalbott.com/



We got to MotoTalbott and just like Web told us, I see a classic Gilera motorcycle stuck on a pole about 10 feet in the air. Did not appear to have anything wrong with it save for a dent in the exhaust. Inside we met one of the docents whose name escapes me at the moment. He told us the place had been open since 2016 and we were welcome to look around. He then told us there was another room downstairs containing a whole bunch of dirt bikes.



The first thing to greet my eyes when we walked in was a Tri-Color 851.
Then immediately to my left I see one of Wayne Rainey's title winning YZR500s. Next to it was a Kenny Roberts title winning V4 from 1980. Then Kenny Roberts Jr RGV title bike from 2000 and one of the KR Proton 3 cylinder 500s as ridden by Nobby Aoki. I was almost out of breath at the sheer quality of the display and the provenance of the race bikes. A few race bikes indeed!!









We walked past the Grand Prix bikes and out of the corner of my eye I see Kawasaki green.....and the number 32. A Bostrom bike...indeed it was a Muzzy Kawasaki ZX7R as ridden by Eric Bostrom. We walked through to a second room, past the bathrooms (a whole other story in themselves) and I see a shop in the back to the left. As I peeked through the windows I was greeted by the sight of a 900 Super Sport Final Edition. An SS/FE. As proclaimed to my wife at the sight of it, a guy peeks around the corner.



Turns out, he the lead mechanic. I think it was Bob Weindorf as he's listed on the website. Anyway, he told me he'd literally worked on thousands of 900s and gave me a rundown on what to do with mine. From what he told me, he was the first mechanic at Moto Italia down in Glendale. Anyway, we chatted about the 900 SS/FE and what I had going on with the Project Super Sport for a bit and then we decided to go downstairs. I thought the whole downstairs was a dedicated "dirt bike" room. Was I ever wrong.



I get down the stairs and what do I see. A 916.



Then through what looked like a hall door, I see a line of motorcycles. I walked through and there sits a Jawa Ice Racer. Cool! The entire place was rocking and I absolutely enjoyed every second of being there. It was a $10 entry for veterans so that was a plus. $12 for everyone else. I think it was less for seniors but I'm not sure if it was just the $10 or what.



Click on the web site link for the museum...far better pics of the place there. If anyone is in the Monterey area for any reason, this place is a great little place to check out. I highly recommend it.....sean
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post #23 of 108 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 10:45 AM
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reminds me of Ghost MC back in the day....

reviewing some pics of your project.....a couple suggestions

Yes, the metal fuel filter should have been OEM. NAPA Gold # FIL 3032

Your crankcase was painted black somewhere along the line?

You need a more encompassing clutch cover (carbon?) ...out and out dangerous...if the exposed area of the clutch were to grab a pant leg....I shudder to think.

I'm sure you've got all this added to the gameplan already.

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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Last edited by ducatiman; 11-13-2018 at 11:59 AM.
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post #24 of 108 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 8:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
Your crankcase was painted black somewhere along the line? You need a more encompassing clutch cover (carbon?) I'm sure you've got all this added to the gameplan already.
Yes...the entire engine actually.....while still in the frame to boot. Sloppy as all hell too. Paint on the frame....over spray every where. Nasty job.



As for the clutch...something is amiss there. The installed clutch is a brand new HDESA unit. I am unfamiliar with the ins and outs of this particular brand.



The stack is the proper height but the spider spring retainer was rubbing on the cover (hence it's bare state right now) so I removed the cover. It was the stock metal one, complete with the elephant on the inside.



Puzzling as the stack height is correct. Also, some of the plates are not what I expected when I removed them for examination. The "coned" Belville spring plate is not a full sized plate in the HDESA stack. It's a smaller ring like plate with another larger diameter plate that it sits inside of. Odd.


It did in fact work when I first got the bike. I intend to install a vented carbon cover when it all goes back together.



Did some work on the front wheel today. I intend to polish the lip and paint the center matte gold.



Removing the paint from the lip is just off the hook difficult. I used a chemical stripper which got rid of the bronze paint in moments.



Underneath that....whole other story. Seems like a super thick primer. At least 4 THICK coats of it.



It could be powder coat..but it comes off with the paint stripper so I'm guessing it is just super thick and likely chemical resistant too.


I was STARTING to get down to bare metal after my 3rd application of the paint stripper. I'll go back at it another day.



The tank is still in the process of stripping off the stuff in the last upload of pics. I'm still reasonably sure it is an adhesion promoter.



It smells of a lacquer base when it is scraped off. I used some lacquer thinner to remove the more gooey sections of it.



Some of it though, was quite tough to remove and was adhered to the paint below it quite well. I had to use a gasket scraper to get through much of it.



The base of the tank where it meets the rider is still to be done, and the "leg notches" are still covered in a thick layer of the adhesion promoter.



I scraped for a couple of hours and didn't get very far on those parts. Other than that, nothing new to update....sean


PS: Thanks for the fuel filter P/N.


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Last edited by Apriliarider; 11-13-2018 at 8:09 PM.
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post #25 of 108 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 9:03 PM
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Rubbing on the cover.....was there a factory cover gasket present? Leave it to Ducati....my cover gasket was MIA as delivered. P/N 78810521A (or making one should be easy). It may be NLA, I'm not sure on that. With gasket (even your own spacers, as its an open cover anyway) may extend the cover a few mm outwards enough to negate the interference? Vented carbon cover will be trick.

I'm not familiar with HDESA. I'd guess you'll need to evaluate based on performance once the bike is operational. Short of Barnett plates, mine is stock, but with the "quiet clutch mod"....nice music with lever pulled in, no obnoxious clashing and bashing otherwise. I became tired of the noise, I'm more inclined to listen to happy, tasty engine sounds rather than a clanking clutch. Can reverse at any time with some plate manipulation...a 10-15 minute easy job.

Does HDESA use original Duc clutch plates? Dunno.

I'm not a painter, so I'm completely unqualified to comment on factory(?) undercoating, primers, etc.

I admire your tenacity.

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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Last edited by ducatiman; 11-13-2018 at 9:08 PM.
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