Carb sync went wrong - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-3-2018, 9:00 PM Thread Starter
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Carb sync went wrong

2009 Ninja 500r

I attempted to do a carb sync and made the set-up incorrectly. I ended up sucking a small amount of water into the intake before I quickly shut the bike off. Now the bike wont start. It will make a sound for a split second then dies. How can I get the bike running again?
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-3-2018, 9:09 PM Thread Starter
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I had also just taken off the carbs to access the pilot screws and a bit of gas came out of the carbs, but I have gas going straight to the fuel line. Not sure what to do. This is my first motorcycle so I don't have much experience. Any tips would help! I hope I didn't just ruin my bike...
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-3-2018, 9:26 PM
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I would take out the spark plugs. Crank the engine over a couple of times to see if any water comes out, don't crank it more than a few seconds as to not burn up the starter. Check the spark plugs while they're out, to see if they are fouled.

Edit: I almost forgot, you will want to put the plugs back in the caps before cranking the engine over. Just hang them over the side so they are not touching any thing.

2006 Ninja500R Purchased new July 2006; 0 miles. Miles as of January 2019; 102,137. It's a GO bike, not a SHOW bike.
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Last edited by bpe; 9-3-2018 at 9:36 PM.
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-3-2018, 9:46 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks! I'll try it tomorrow hopefully
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-4-2018, 12:23 AM
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@arronpkelly
Let's kick it off right... and American English...
I'm very pragmatic and you gave year but not mileage.... you attempted something and so...
1: Why did you think the carbs needed a sync?
2: Vacuum gauges work wonders as opposed to home built manometers for obvious reasons.
3: Why did you remove carb set to access the mix screws if they were already exsposed.
4: Hopefully you didn't split the carb set.
5: Make sure you don't have a vacuum leak. IE the carbs are seated in the intake boots correctly.
6: Valve adjustment.
7: Battery

#6 is probably where it initially began. Then it just got worse so think...

Remember, I'm pragmatic and assuming you took care of things like the valve adjustment and a good battery.
What exactly caused you to do or think you needed a carb sync?
Was it a hard start condition? Valves
I don't know what you did so you must think.

O_E_M
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-4-2018, 7:47 AM Thread Starter
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5560 Miles
1: I wanted to sync the carbs on the 9 year old bike the make sure it was preforming as best as possible.
2: I made my own set-up to try and save money.
3: The carbs were removed to drill out the covers to the pilot screws. They weren't already exposed. The right pilot screw was out 1.5 turns and the left was 1 turn out. Not sure how this affects the sync of the carbs, but I thought the sync would be a good idea now that I have both pilot screws out 2.25 turns.
4: I only took the carbs out a few inches to turn them to the side to get a good angle to drill with a dremel. I wasn't able to drill far enough without removing the carbs.
5: I reinstalled the carbs carefully and made sure the tubes were on all the way.
6: I did not adjust the valves
7: Just installed a new battery about a week ago (YTX14AHL-BS High Performance - Maintenance Free - Sealed AGM Motorcycle Battery) CCA:210.

In my effort to do the FOG mod, I wanted to sync the carbs as instructed.
I believe it is a hard start. The bike makes a jolt when I try to start it, but dies immediately after. Holding the ignition button (for more than a fraction of a second) does nothing.

Edit: The bike was cold when I started the sync. Dumb, I know, but I'm learning. I figured I would let it run for a few minutes and sync the carbs in the process.

Last edited by Aaronpkelly; 9-4-2018 at 7:55 AM.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-4-2018, 5:08 PM
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Alright....
Well.... good info. Thank you.
Mileage indicated means it's due up for a valve adjustment.
The fact you had to drill out the US EPA plugs to access the mix screws means to me that this bike was most likely left stock and wasn't maintained other than an owner just possibly dropping it off at a dealer.

The carbs are set lean to conform to EPA requirements.
You didn't need to sync them. It's very rare that they need to be synced unless the carbs were split.
The mixture screws don't exactly affect the sync.... all you're doing with a sync, checking or setting up, is that the throttle plates are close to even.
The mix screws are where you dial your carbs in. 2.25 is close enough to start.... it's ball park and your ear will tell you where it's supposed to be.
Using a set of vacuum guages will get you as close as you ever need to be on the sync though and you shouldn't have touched it.
There's a reason this carb stuff is done on a bench.

A valve adjustment needs to be done. Period.
You put the cart WAY before the horse going after the carbs first and I'm getting annoyed right now...

O_E_M
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-4-2018, 5:34 PM
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I'm getting annoyed right now..."

Why

FOG

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-4-2018, 6:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fog View Post
I'm getting annoyed right now..."

Why

FOG
Why? Because it took him a bit to admit the valve adjustment hasn't been done and carbs were jumped on first.
So it makes me annoyed the basics weren't handled on his part.
I assumed it was handled and I shouldn't have.

I forget sometimes that not everyone thinks like a machinist or a mechanic or a troubleshooter in general.
I'm just getting old and years of expericence combined with a natural ability have made me jaded in some ways.

O_E_M
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-4-2018, 6:39 PM
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@Aaronpkelly, bpe's suggestion is sound. If there's any water left in there, it'll blow right out the spark plug holes. I'd say holding the starter button for about 2 seconds ought to do it. Plug everything back together and you should be good to go.
It might not be a bad idea to drain the fuel out of the flow bowls. I honestly doubt water got in there, but I've dealt with water getting into the business side of carbs and it really likes to find its way to the bottom of the float bowls. It also takes very little water in there to make it not run. If you've still got the tank off and are using the tried and true water bottle of gas as a fuel source, then the bowls will fill up fine on their own. If you've got the tank back on, you'll want to get a length of vacuum hose at least a foot long, plug it into the vacuum port on the petcock which actuates the vacuum plunger and suck on it for a good 15 seconds. This will pull the plunger back and allow the bowls to fill, rather than cranking on the starter forever waiting for the bowls to slowly fill.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-4-2018, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for your input. @bpe you saved the day. Took the sparks out (which look disgusting, I'll be replacing them asap) and hit the ignition. Water shot out the engine and hit the ceiling of the garage haha! I let the bike sit for a few hours while I went to class and it started up after I returned home! So glad this worked.
As for the valve adjustment, I'll look into doing this. I'll need to invest in a feeler gauge.
My prior experience extends as far as doing an oil change on my car. I have very little mechanical experience and I'm just trying to learn as I go.

Edit: I looked up the valve adjustment wiki and it looks more complicated than anything I have done. I'm sure I could get it done, but Is this a must-do task?

Last edited by Aaronpkelly; 9-4-2018 at 11:04 PM.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-5-2018, 4:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronpkelly View Post
I looked up the valve adjustment wiki and it looks more complicated than anything I have done. I'm sure I could get it done, but Is this a must-do task?


It wouldn't be a bad idea to go ahead and do the valve adjustment now. But if you get it running fine with what you are doing, idles smooth, starts up OK (if it requires choke to start up, that is not a bad thing. The choke is there for a reason). Then I wouldn't worry about the valve adjustment just yet.

But you do have a scheduled valve adjustment coming up at 7500 miles, and every 7500 miles there after. It must be done there is no way around it. And it is probably more critical on a low mileage engine like yours, as the valves tend to move more on a newer engine.

One thing I would do now, if you haven't already, is either replace or clean your air filter.

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-5-2018, 6:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronpkelly View Post
Thanks everyone for your input. @bpe you saved the day. Took the sparks out (which look disgusting, I'll be replacing them asap) and hit the ignition. Water shot out the engine and hit the ceiling of the garage haha! I let the bike sit for a few hours while I went to class and it started up after I returned home! So glad this worked.
As for the valve adjustment, I'll look into doing this. I'll need to invest in a feeler gauge.
My prior experience extends as far as doing an oil change on my car. I have very little mechanical experience and I'm just trying to learn as I go.

Edit: I looked up the valve adjustment wiki and it looks more complicated than anything I have done. I'm sure I could get it done, but Is this a must-do task?

I recently did my first-ever valve job...and on this bike, too! You CAN do it!!! The toughest part for me was to get the valve cover off! After that the valves are right there staring at ya. Follow the Wiki or ask as you're doing and it becomes pretty easy.

If I can do it, anyone can.

***Oh, and DO NOT tighten the cover screws too tight!!!
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-5-2018, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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I will wait to do the valve adjustment until after winter. I decided to go ahead with the carb sync since everything was in place and I think it turned out well. No water sucked in the intake this time, and the carbs were even at 2-3k rpm. The bike starts great and idles smoothly for the most part, maybe new plugs will make it even better! A K&N filter will be here today and I plan on drilling a 1" hole in the air box in the near future! Can't wait to see how the bike runs after the mod is done!
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-5-2018, 4:23 PM
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Glad it all worked out in the end.

As for the valve adjustment, bpe is pretty much spot on. You can wing it to 10,000 miles if needed, I actually do regularly, but that's because I set the exhaust valves on the loose end, giving me a bit more time. For your first valve adjustment though, I'd stick pretty squarely to the factory interval. You've got more wiggle room after that. Since you're not even to 6,000 miles yet though, you definitely have time on your side.

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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-6-2018, 2:49 AM
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Valve clearance....
intake valves to 0.006 INCHES
exhaust valves to 0.009 INCHES.
Do when engine is cold, as in, not been running.
That'll get you the extended intervals saabnut was referring to.

Valve adjustment sounds way worse than it is. Just don't gorilla the coolant tube screws or the adjuster nuts for the rockers.

O_E_M

PS: Thanks goes to @bpe, @Saabnut, @Devilsfan, and @fog
for helping him and letting me calm down.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-7-2018, 1:50 PM
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@OEM your post #9 in this thread is intimidating and offensive. Note the OP has all but a handful of posts.

We've gone down this road before particularly regarding new members, my involvement and past comments as "senior member" but now as Co- Moderator, so you can take this as an official warning........ go easy on the new folk, we want participation, not isolation, as a by-product to any critique, *especially involving new folk.*

Gaining new members (and keeping them) is vital to the longevity of this forum.

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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-9-2018, 1:19 AM
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I did a synch on the carbs from my '89, but only because I had to split the set to replace the O-rings in the inlet pipe. Fortunately, I have a surface plate so that alignment was not a problem. The thing about the Keihin carbs is that there is very little spring tension on the throttle plates, and very little reason for them ever to ever get out of synch. A purpose-built manometer is the way to go, especially if you have more than one bike.

I finally figured out why I like Ducatis: With their exhaust note and dry clutch, they sound almost like a Guzzi!

Last edited by po18guy; 9-9-2018 at 1:26 AM.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-11-2018, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
@OEM your post #9 in this thread is intimidating and offensive. Note the OP has all but a handful of posts.

We've gone down this road before particularly regarding new members, my involvement and past comments as "senior member" but now as Co- Moderator, so you can take this as an official warning........ go easy on the new folk, we want participation, not isolation, as a by-product to any critique, *especially involving new folk.*

Gaining new members (and keeping them) is vital to the longevity of this forum.
I don't see a "post #9" for me, Duc.
I backed off and said so when I assumed things were done so accordingly, in proper, logical steps, and I was getting annoyed.

I don't see the OP has a handful of posts, my mobile stuff doesn't show it, I wasn't, and am not looking at it like that.
I assumed.... I assumed you could see how my screen looks. I assumed the OP knew what it was from the get go. I assumed. So we both assumed and.... I'M getting a warning?

O_E_M

@ducatiman
At least get the underscores in my name, please?
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-11-2018, 7:33 PM
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O_E_M the warning stands.

Openly, aggressively proclaiming your angst was uncalled for, clearly basing your state on the OP's lack of doing (or admitting he didn't do) some prerequisite mechanical tasks. Again, the fella had 6 posts at the time, whether you knew it or not.

As an aside....I'd like to think, contrary to producing anger here, we are *enjoying ourselves* on this forum, otherwise we wouldn't choose to be here, no?

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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-11-2018, 10:46 PM
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The bottom line is, there was no need to get annoyed at all, because the OP did or said nothing wrong. Whether or not he adjusted the valves first had nothing to do with this thread. He attempted the FOG mod, and the engine ingested some water from the home made manometer and got hydro locked and wouldn't start. He asked for help with that, directly and politely. Publicly proclaiming annoyance with him was out of order. It's just one more case of needlessly provoking another member, which will no longer be tolerated. Period. I stand in agreement with ducatiman.
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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-11-2018, 11:03 PM
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@K-woppa
@ducatiman

Look, fellas, where is it what I did was was hostile?
Don't like honesty?
There's enough info to read ON THIS SITE, and kids don't need vids to walk them through EVERY step of the way.
So again, sorry if you or anyone was offended.

O_E_M
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post #23 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-11-2018, 11:28 PM
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You've been warned. That's all I need to say.
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post #24 of 22 (permalink) Old 9-11-2018, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by K-woppa View Post
You've been warned. That's all I need to say.
Yup, gotcha loud and clear..................... hope you do too.

O_E_M
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