Slight choke problem. - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-11-2019, 5:53 AM Thread Starter
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Slight choke problem.

Hi guys,

I took apart my carbs last year, cleaned them, went to mechanic to sync them, set the mixture as it should, idle screw. I never had any problems , and don't have them now but Im having with half functional choke.

At the first month it was all ok. Usually since I bought this bike (12 years ago), choke always was functioning like this- first half nothing happens then it starts to kick in. When it is fully applied rpms went to 3k.

But since last year after cleaning (not sure or 1 month later), it was rainy and I couldnt start it with full choke. Then i closed choke and it started. Hmmm. Later on I noticed that fully applied choke kills my bike.

Since now the weather is still cold, I need it and I managed to get it to work to maybe 1500rpms. I apply the choke maybe 2mm from fully applied position, and then its ok. If I try to give it some more, it just kills my bike.

I guess it is the too much fuel.

Bike is idling fine, going fine, I don't see any difference in consumption etc.

What I want to know guys, what can I do to try to fix this but not to take appart carbs again ? Yeah sounds stupid but I really don't have nerves to do this again, I would rather go to mechanic and pay .... Is there anything that I can try with cables, mixture screws (bike running fine...) etc?

I can start a bike with this but I think that it would start easier if the choke can be fully applied, since the weather is still cold.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-11-2019, 6:39 AM
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there is a saying "if it works leave it alone" or something like that. if the bike starts and runs fine. you may find it worse if you alter it, having said that. as far as I know [I'm sure Duc will jump in here if this is wrong] but.


the choke control is a separate operation of the jet system. it has no bearing on the other systems like pilots. it allows more fuel into the engine for starting that is all. however other systems can effect it operation.

for instance if the cable is tight or loose it will determine how much the choke operates. too tight and it may be on very slightly in the off position. too slack it may not completely operate at all due to the small amount of choke lever travel.

and while it does not directly affect say the pilot system. how the pilots are set may affect how the choke works. if the bike is set a little rich less choke will be needed and the opposite if it's a little weak.

if the mechanic set the choke cable a bit tight and then set up the pilots, the bike would run fine as long as the choke position is not altered but it's operating range may be reduced.

it's sounds as though yours is running a little rich on the pilots so full choke puts too much fuel in and kills the engine. where as before it was a little weak or just right and the choke operates differently. if you don't want to mess with it and upset how it runs if you can live with it fine do it some time later when the weather is warmer.

as an aside it's not really a choke but an enricher. a choke works by reducing the air intake by way of a flap. these carbs work by having a separate circuit to increase the amount of fuel entering the engine when it is applied. everyone "well almost" refers this to a choke so people know what it does. that's fine as long as you understand the difference.
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Last edited by yorkie; 2-11-2019 at 6:42 AM.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-11-2019, 9:30 AM
fog
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The fact is "Choke Problems" almost never involve the Choke (Mxture enricher) .

First place to look is the inside of the plug boots, (Rainy day problems) any dirty to condensation on the inside of the boots, or the porcelain of the plugs can cause an easier path to ground than the spark plug gap.

2nd most likely place is a bad high voltage connection undo and renew all such places.

3nd is a plugged pilot jet. preventing the proper starting mixture.

again almost never a (CHOKE) problem

FOG

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-11-2019, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks yorkie. I get the difference but even Kawasaki wrote Choke on the lever strange.

Maybe its running a bit rich, I will find the pictures of the plugs. I sent them last year to my mechanic and he said I think its a bit rich bit it looks ok. Also they are black around electrode and he asked me if my bike is "eating oil" maybe. I said its not, cuz its fine, I don't put much oil between change interval.

When I tried to get it a bit leaner, I didn't manage to get my bike to run better. Maybe slightly worse. Well thats probably lack of experience from me. Also I heard there is a special tool which measure air and fuel ratio but I never seen one in any shop.

Here are the pictures of the plugs.
https://imgur.com/ta2HYTP
https://imgur.com/Q2Qfyn0

They have maybe 3000-5000km.

-----

@fog, Man are you magician or what? I think that my choke started to make problems when I was on the motomeeting, and it was rainy night! In the morning it was very wet and then problems started and this is the first time I noticed that my choke isn't working good.

3rd -I think that pilot jet is clean 100%. I cleaned all jets and they were clean.

Only 1 thing that I didn't touch when I cleaned carbs were the mixture screws. I didn't want to unbalance the mixture so I didn't took them apart and clean those holes /needle or whatever is inside. But I doubt that is the problem cuz even before cleaning, carbs were pretty clean except little rust on the bottom bowls.


Im gonna check and probably replace plugs this season just in case.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-11-2019, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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One more question- I always use NGK plugs and never had problem but I wanted to try Denso X27ESR-U, they are insted NGKs DR9EA. Anyone tried that brand?
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-11-2019, 12:13 PM
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read "Sparks & Such" in the how too

Like the title says, there is a lot of info in there boiled down to layman terms that will help you understand what spark plug does and thus to choose wisely

FOG
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-11-2019, 1:15 PM Thread Starter
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Ok will check it out .

And also what comes to my mind (but not related to this problem), right plug cap/boot doesn't snap fit like the left. Never had problems actually and problems didn'y start cuz of that but probably there is a bigger chance for moisture and dirt to come in.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-11-2019, 10:41 PM
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Densos are good plugs. Never had a problem with them. As to starting up, you are in an area which has "seasons" For some of the members here, it is always warm and the "choke" is rarely if ever needed. In colder, more humid climates that also involve elevation changes, it might take full enrichener to start, but be ready to modulate the enrichening lever opening to find the balance between dying off and revving too high. I often just crank the idle speed mixture knob up until it is at about 1.5 or 2K, then put my gear on and drop it back down to idle speed.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 2-12-2019, 6:12 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po18guy View Post
Densos are good plugs. Never had a problem with them. As to starting up, you are in an area which has "seasons" For some of the members here, it is always warm and the "choke" is rarely if ever needed. In colder, more humid climates that also involve elevation changes, it might take full enrichener to start, but be ready to modulate the enrichening lever opening to find the balance between dying off and revving too high. I often just crank the idle speed mixture knob up until it is at about 1.5 or 2K, then put my gear on and drop it back down to idle speed.
Yeah have seasons here, but no elevation changes in my part of the country. Im at 60-70m and its all flat. Usually I always used choke even at first start up at summer. But it was usually just starting and then pull it back to get to idle speed.
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