the Carburetor Chronicles - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 5-25-2019, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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the Carburetor Chronicles

In an ongoing effort to voluntarily streamline the carb section, I will heretofore post ALL my carb fun /work /crap /pictures /challenges /drama /etc within this thread. I will not include Custom Carb Service VENDOR business chatter, which I will continue to keep separate thus adhering to forum rules.

Apologies for the past clutter, this should put the carb section on a radical diet.

I will commence with these Ducati BDST38 Mikuni carbs, my property, and sorely in need of refurb.

More to follow. Holiday weekend OFF.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 5-25-2019, 9:27 PM Thread Starter
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Disassembly phase on above.......why are folks so compelled to tighten a tiny pilot jet to seemingly 32 foot pound? Or a starter jet to 38? I detest asinine, unnecessary overkill in such applications.

The overworked drill and easy-out will be employed yet again. What should be a simple, quick, routine task made a PIA due to a total lack of thought (that these things must actually be removed someday) by an unknown gorilla somewhere.

Well, I'm likin' this new "chronicles" section so far. Rant over.

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 5-25-2019, 10:23 PM
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The gorilla strikes yet again.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 5-26-2019, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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These carbs (and their section within the chronicles) have just been named....tale of the Gorilla.

Beyond chatter, I hope forum folks gain insight and minor knowledge as to what TO do and NOT to do (in a carb sense) reading this stuff.

General small hardware torque lesson to be learned here...enough is enough, more than enough does not make any better. A conscious effort...someone was chanting "these are never gonna fall out, never!" while installing these pilot jets. Classic ignorant OVERKILL.

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 5-28-2019, 6:33 PM Thread Starter
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Gorilla has been mercilessly $itch slapped today...pic says it all.
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“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 5-29-2019, 9:19 PM Thread Starter
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My Duc carbs moved to back burner.....in order to knock this 2 fitty set off for a fella in Brooklyn today. All issues resolved, clean in as out, I predict they'll run perfect.
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“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 6-5-2019, 7:46 PM Thread Starter
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Kaw ZX750 4 bangers done, carb kit and requested jet kit components installed and set up. All Balls brand carb kit included pilot screws were were wonky (likely wrong for this application), decided to use (cleaned) originals. As was some kit supplied internal hardware, again I stuck with original. Synch was clearly, visibly off, which I corrected. And 3 pilot jets clogged to varying degree.

All issues corrected, predict these'll be fine runners.

************************************************** ****************************************
Forgot, I finished the Gorilla's (Ducati/Mikuni spare carbs) from the original post a few days ago. And even moar-er-er 2 fitty's are inbound. Likely here tomorrow.
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Last edited by ducatiman; 6-5-2019 at 10:49 PM.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 6-7-2019, 1:45 PM Thread Starter
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Knocked the 2 fittys off already...no b4 pics, don't matter...finished is what really counts. These came out nice in and out, setup/wet testing perfect. Note all brass restored. Now bolt-on runners, reliable with a long service life ahead. Owner will be satisfied, I've done 3 sets over a few years for the fella, he a multi bike owner, gets a fair discount nowadays, and rightfully so. Received yesterday, already on their way home to Delaware....so next day service. Try that at your local Honkawzukahati dealership this time o' year.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 6-7-2019, 5:39 PM Thread Starter
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Wanted to add a fun little tidbit regarding wet testing the float system. A gravity fed, remote tank hanging from above, I installed an inline fuel valve (petcock) to enable OFF or ON flow as needed.

Carbs hooked up (bowls dry), when valve flipped to ON....I listen for what I call the "toilet flush" ....liquid quickly filling the fuel pathways, into and past the float valves and bowls quickly filling. There is a distinct sound involved, as a result, I then know the float valves are functioning in "inlet or fill mode"

I'm then checking for any leakage anywhere, letting them sit a bit, bowls filled. As I've renewed all fuel inlet and vent rail and bowl orings, this is rarely a problem, though an occasional broken rail will drip...followed by replacement.

Then follows the actual fuel level test...opening the drain bolt with tubing attached.....I'm looking for float valves to restrict the fuel height to prescribed levels, equal between the 2. Sometimes tweaks are called for, have run into a defective float valve, rare but does occur....hey, thats why I'm checking. Want to make any and all repairs and adjustments needed PRIOR to actual installation on the bike.

If levels are ok, the float valves have now proven themselves ok in "stop mode"....let 'em sit loaded for a bit.

In order to confirm, I've developed ways to repeat the refill/level/stop mode test without full drain, disassemble, toilet flush repeat.

As I choose to test prior to final, full carb parts assembly, I then disassemble yet again (double work, but thats ok), reclean, blow and air dry, then later go forward to final full assembly phase.

Fun poop. I believe I've long ago developed an effective, efficient methodology and got it down to "routine".

A full takedown, split, machine assist refurb, testing, reassembly is about 5 hours total labor on 250 and 500 twin carbs. Ducati/Mikuni twin somewhat longer. 4 bangers double that, if not longer.

I admit it, I'm a carb nerd all right.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 6-8-2019, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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I've been advised moar er er er Ducati carbs incoming next week

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 6-22-2019, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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refurbed carb set #68 about to make its debut, #69 on deck.

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 6-30-2019, 2:12 PM Thread Starter
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even moar er er er Ducati carbs...a side by side before and after...how'm I doin?
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“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 6-30-2019, 2:30 PM
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Doing good!

And fancy photography getting the before and after in the same picture.
That's like when you could see Jeanie and her evil brunette cousin in the same shot.

2006 Ninja500R Purchased new July 2006; 0 miles. Miles as of January 2019; 102,137. It's a GO bike, not a SHOW bike.
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 6-30-2019, 3:19 PM Thread Starter
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I get into a roll when I'm working..I forget or totally disregard "in process" pics. Meaningless anyway, its the "done" pics that actually matter.

Hey a new slogan...Done Carbs Matter Hats, tee shirts, coffee cups, new business cards and revamped website to follow.....errrr, not.

Upon further consideration...."Clean Carbs Matter"....my new, politically incorrect company slogan.
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 7-2-2019, 5:57 PM
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this ducatiman guy ain't seen nuthin'.....from this to........that. Yes , not faked, it IS the same set.

yup, clean carbs matter all right. Ducatiman, harumphhh.

This carbset named "OMG", I'd think the reason why rather obvious from the 1st pic.
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 7-2-2019, 7:41 PM Thread Starter
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Most recent Ducati carbs came to me with slides and throttle plates frozen in place from many (?) years sitting with fuel. In pic the needles actually showing epoxy like residue preventing slides from rising, sticking to the needle jets. As always...great care taken to safely remove without creating peripheral damage.

Looking at the flat slide plastic, I'd swear they were exposed to **starter fluid spray or some such...it took a lot of effort to polish them clean again. The carbset did come out nice, will be fine runners. Ethanol resistant Litetek orings/seals were used in this particular rebuild. For some reason the Mikuni metals react quite favorably to my methods.


** footnote...starter fluid has no place in motorcycle repair...simply destructive crap with no permanent repair benefit whatsoever.
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 7-3-2019, 8:31 AM
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I'm still amazed at how freakin' shiny you get those things!!! They look brand spankin' new by the time you're done with them.
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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 7-3-2019, 2:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for your comment. These restoration quality jobs a combination, I think, of correct use of machines, methods, chemicals (or lack thereof), some experience in knowing what to do where, and to what extent to which part. Obvious that bodies, plastics, diaphragms and brass are all treated via different methods. Knowing enough to avoid overkill as well...and repairing or replacing anything defective/broken, etc within the process. Whatever it takes.

I'm not just receiving them out of the box, clearing the pilot jets, sticking them back in the box and shipping them back.

Refurb, restoration, whatever you prefer to call it. My goal is to offer various forum members a total product package, intended to both look and perform as close to new as I can possibly achieve. In a respect, your carbs become mine for a short period.

After all.....Clean Carbs Matter, right? Yes, they actually do.
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 7-27-2019, 8:09 PM Thread Starter
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Browsing Ebay "pre-owned" carbs....anywhere from $160 to $245 bucks? On top of it all...as we know "pre owned" is code for "just as they came off the bike", untouched....therefore a crapshoot. You have no idea what you are getting....out and out risky.
My refurbs a known consistent quality product, reasonably priced. I'm also here for ongoing support.... good luck with that from your Ebay seller.

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 8-3-2019, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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2 fiddies finished tonight, young man in Massachusetts
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 8-8-2019, 2:10 PM Thread Starter
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and you wonder why I've only got 170 miles on my new 650 Honda...deferred a ride this morning to complete these for a member here.

Needles over shimmed, pilots & mains grossly overjetted, this thing "swimming" on a bike with stock airbox and exhaust....all now stands corrected.

Received yesterday 11AM....shipping back today by 3.....28 hour carb service....not too shabby.

As penance, its back to "the Pile" again this afternoon.
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 8-8-2019, 8:38 PM
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and you wonder why I've only got 170 miles on my new 650 Honda...deferred a ride this morning to complete these for a member here.

Needles over shimmed, pilots & mains grossly overjetted, this thing "swimming" on a bike with stock airbox and exhaust....all now stands corrected.

Received yesterday 11AM....shipping back today by 3.....28 hour carb service....not too shabby.

As penance, its back to "the Pile" again this afternoon.


I am beyond impressed with the look of my carb set . Thankfully I found this forum. With a little reading I found my way to Gordon . 24 hour turn around is impressive!
He answered every question I asked and pointed me in the right direction on some things I still need to do. Thanks for all the help .
Brian
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 8-8-2019, 8:46 PM Thread Starter
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thank you for kind words, Brian. Sorry no pics of carb guts...stopping for pics breaks my working momentum. Rest assured, they are as clean in as out, perfectly setup and wet tested to confirm.

After you get her running....Fog Mod baby!

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 9-27-2019, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
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5 hunnerds in the house. I'll wager owner will not recognize these as his!
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 10:50 AM
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Ducati/Mikuni carbs in the house. Most folks don't split, but I insist rail seal replacement is essential on these now near 25 year old carbs. (note white corrosion on round rail inlet port, last pic, yellow arrow) The seals were dry, cracked and/or badly corroded....nothing unusual involving this vintage.

Additionally upon inspection I found severely worn (ovaled) needle jets. As this causes rich running, replacements were sourced using Yamaha part numbers. Used Suzuki and Ducati part numbers for stuff too....but all actual Mikuni stuff underneath their respective part numbers.

Float levels were extremely low (netting high fuel levels), float valves were beyond worn.
With owner permission, I opted to replace pilot jets. I'm now stocking new pilot and needle jets in addition to carb
kits containing the usual consumables.
Badly in need, but came out nice both in and out, owner should be impressed with restored function, fuel mileage and reliability.
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