Carb Setup/Settings - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
 
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 1-5-2020, 2:50 AM Thread Starter
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Carb Setup/Settings

Hello! This is my first post so i'm not too sure what information is needed to get the help I want, but I've owned a 2005 500R for 2-3 years.

BACKGROUND:
When I bought it I was able to drive it from Dallas to Stillwater every other weekend and I wasn't too mechanically inclined to work on it or maintain it as needed so from the beginning it always ran fine, but I remember having lots of problems starting it. I finally bought a 79 Camaro and got sidetracked getting into cars and training myself to become a mechanic for about a year. I finally got my Motorcycle license yesterday <<<LOL... So i've been determined to start riding it again, I had left it with my mom and it slowly got more and more problems over time and finally stopped being able to start.

INITIAL PROBLEM:
After charging the battery for 12 hours, the motor started to crank but when it finally started it would run for literally a second and have a very very loud backfire.

RECENT WORK:
So today I started working on the bike and started taking everything apart. I got the carbs off, I got the airbox off, I slowly figured out what every single hose and piece does around the engine, I checked the spark plugs, I tested for spark, I cleaned what I could at the time. I completely disassembled the carbs from watching a million Youtube videos. (Was extremely dirty from old fuel) I cleaned it to the best of my ability while carefully trying not to ruin any rubber or brass fittings and I continued to clean every single part I touched and put everything back together. I figured out it backfired from igniting a large amount of fuel after trying to spark a VERY VERY Dirty spark plug... after cleaning everything it started almost immediately and now I'm just trying to get it to idle...

WHAT I FOUND:
- The spark plugs were extremely dirty with large buildup, and the left side was wet (maybe from flooding the engine trying to start) but they seemed usable so I cleaned them with sandpaper and clean towels and I semi tried to gap them to .024-.028 inches. But I kinda eyeballed it b/c my gap tool was too big.
- I notice some white/grey dirt (carbon deposit?) inside the right intake manifold so I did my best to clean it without letting it fall in (some probably did)
- I have not changed the oil yet (Don't hate me) and I did notice, even when tilting the bike, I never saw the top of the oil level. (Could this mean fuel got in the oil, causing it to rise? How can I check)
- When running at first it would idle extremely rough and at 3500-4000 rpm so we let it run for a while hoping it would clear a bit and the white smoke would slowly go away (it kinda did.)

PROBLEMS RIGHT NOW:
When you start the engine it revs extremely high and if you give it any gas it dies. and if you mess with black throttle screw (come back to this later) it is highly effected.. I tried to sync it with the choke, which I now think is a bad idea.

SMALL QUESTIONS:
(1st Question) Are you supposed to completely seat the main and pilot jet inside the float bowls? The small brass screw (Pilot Screw) was in a very deep hole (is that supposed to be like that)((YouTube videos show the screw near the top of the opening.))

(2nd Question) How many turns should I adjust my black plastic throttle screw and small ((High Throttle screw)) I didn't know until 5 minutes ago the black plastic screw is only the throttle adjustment and I thought THAT was the idle screw, which it kinda was, but I was trying to get it to lower the rpms to a point that I could finally take off the choke and run it smoothly, but when I finally got to a point, it needed the choke to run and when i pulled the throttle it would want to die. Is this because its too rich?? (Could the jets in float bowls need to be unscrewed a couple turns or do I understand that incorrectly??) ((I finally understand my actual idle screw is covered but could this really be the problem if everything is freshly cleaned))

OVERALL QUESTION
Based on what you read, does it sound like i'm running rich? I had taken the spark plugs out again and once again the were really dirty but this time with a dry matte black soot. There is still a small amount of white smoke and the smell of gas coming from the exhaust but I still cant get it to idle properly and accelerate without wanting to die. So what can I do. I know it has to be some type of carb adjustment maybe a sync of some sort but can anyone here give me some direction?

I understand this post was very long but I'm so so disappointed I couldn't figure it out on my own in less than a day. Any help is greatly appreciated!!!
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 1-7-2020, 9:32 AM
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Yes, your carbs are still whacked. Becoming a master of carbs takes a bit more than 1 day, but of course "carbs are easy!" is the accepted mantra. Reality is...they are not, requiring much more than the usually advised simple pilot jet removal, poking and reinstall.

Invisible to the eye, multiple hidden, winding inner circuits require aggressive clearing, sometimes old epoxy like fuel deposits require multiple courses of "attention".

As these bikes are ageing, ALL consumable parts require automatic replacement during service. Pilot, starter, main, air correction and float circuits....all demand visual troubleshooting during disassembly, inspection and clearing, correct, careful reassembly, followed by adjustments, wet testing and various confirmations to get it all *right* the first time.

The right equipment, some experience required to really do a truly lasting pro job. Personally, refurb or restoration are my goals, perpetual learning experience ...constantly improving methods and the final "product" with every carb set I do.

So, don't be disappointed, not unusual that multiple corrective attempts are needed when new to doing these carbs. Thus my carb service was born for those requiring refurb but lacking work space, inclination, time or motivation, proper machines/tools ...whatever the case.

These carbs actually a bit of a specialty. Example...innards of 25 year old Ducati/Mikuni carbs done recently.
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remember...Clean Carbs Matter

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Last edited by ducatiman; 1-7-2020 at 9:55 AM.
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 1-7-2020, 9:50 AM
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Additionally....in servicing your EX, your air filter, spark plugs, caps and wires, integrity of battery (based on load test), valve clearances (if schedule calls for)

If you have any suspicion of fuel entering the crankcase...change both oil and filter.

If you have no idea when valves were done (if ever) a check is called for as these EX's commonly are found with alarmingly tight exhaust valves, greatly affecting starting, idling conditions.

Couple all this with your carb work and you'll have a fine starting and running, reliable EX.

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 1-8-2020, 2:57 AM Thread Starter
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Do you know the “basic” carb turns for mine though? I understand everything you’re saying, but all I can do is what I can, I’ve tested every circuit, I’ll change the oil today, I’m 90% confident it can be fixed with settings because I almost had it, and I thought I was fixing it, but figured out I was making it worse.. I’m sure I could spend the next week doing trial after trial trying to make it work, but I hoped there was a default setting someone here would know.

Also, I’m very curious if I should even worry about messing with the idle mixture screws if they still have the welsh plugs covering them.

I figured out it was running very rich and when I tried to give it gas I was choking the engine.
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 1-8-2020, 8:53 AM
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A set of carbs capable of delivering acceptable low and high speed performance will likely require service way beyond "all I can do is what I can". This is where you may be in a position to see my #72 refurbs here
https://www.ex-500.com/50-carburetor...bset-72-a.html
or consider sending your own to me for refurb.

Anyways....
if the factory anti-tamper caps are still present, preventing screw removal, the full pilot circuits remain unable to clean. That is near the "end" of the circuit, if you will.

By "basic carb turns" you are referring to the black, knurled idle adjuster knob...here's the method I usually use for initial startup.......

If carbs are ON the bike....
using full choke to start the bike...get it running....give a minute for revs to rise and idle to stabilize.....slowly backing off the choke lever, lowering the idle a bit at a time with the left hand WHILE adjusting the idle (higher or lower) as necessary with the right hand to keep the bike running. At a certain point (maybe 2 or 3 minutes in) you'll be near if not fully off the choke where you want to be near 1200RPM..using black knob.

If carbs are OFF the bike...
just open the throttle plates a minute amount from fully closed position, get them on the bike and use the above method at that point.

If you choose I can be contacted privately at [email protected]

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 1-8-2020, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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I feel like that’s what I did originally, but I think my problem is when I turn the black knob it doesn’t effect the idle until it’s too far and jumps to too high or too low..

Also, it’s very hard to warm up the bike to let it be adjusted correctly because from the beginning it revs very loudly so I’m trying to get it to a starting point.

Also, do you know the turns for the small silver screw on top?

Thanks for the help by the way
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 1-8-2020, 11:29 AM
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the silver screw on top synchs the throttle plates.....aka "the synch screw". Leave it alone. If you've already disturbed it, bad.

As I had posted earlier the carbs need serious, pro clean and setup.

As a last ditch effort...dump the old fuel, replace with 100% new (also draining each float bowl...allowing new fuel in)

Otherwise, you are in a position where pro carb work or refurbs will be your next best bet.

“Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba....” quote Hunter S Thompson

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