Counterfeit drive chains - Page 4 - Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R
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post #76 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 2:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Davenay67 View Post
Interesting stuff, and well thought out. At the end of the day, however, RK will want to see your suspect chain and do their own analysis. What I don't know, is what will happen if they find you are the victim of an unauthorized chain? I would not be surprised tif they have received other such cases.

On a personal level, the 530XSOZ1 chain I purchased from Amazon (supplied by Amazon, and not a third-party affiliate) also came in an 'O' ring box box, exactly the same as your top picture. The box had a barcode sticker with the correct chain spec. The chain inside is 'marked' with the correct spec.

Is the box just an oversight, or normal RK business practice? Don't know.

Did I get a bogus chain? Don't know.

Am I at least a bit concerned? Yes.

Should I let Amazon know of my concern? Yes.

Should I raise a concern with RK? Probably.

Am I going to send the chain to RK? Not likely.
Yeah, I can understand all of those responses.
The one about letting Amazon know of your concerns. Good luck with that. My guess is, they won't respond back one way or the other.
I did go ahead and check my suspect box again. On the end there is also a bar code sticker with the proper specs on it. So I will give them credit for that. But still doesn't explain why it's the wrong box.

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post #77 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 2:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
With the obvious need for scrutiny including the missing, actual *internal composition* of suspect chains (compared to confirmed genuine samples) , packaging materials, production codes, factory markings...... I'd urge consultation of an expert witness.....

https://rkexcelamerica.com/contact/

They can interpret all evidence presented so far by @bpe

Until such a time, I'd call for dismissal based on insufficient evidence, Your Honor.
************************************************** **************************************
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Honestly I would just want some smoking gun evidence before involving RK.
I would already have to confess to them that I was cleaning the chains with their disapproved method of using kerosene. They will know that as soon as they open the box.

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post #78 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 4:34 PM
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On the contrary, involving RK would enable them to provide valid, indisputable evidence, irrespective of your cleaning methods,
putting this long drama... errrr, court case....to rest, Mr DA.

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post #79 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
On the contrary, involving RK would enable them to provide valid, indisputable evidence, irrespective of your cleaning methods,
putting this long drama... errrr, court case....to rest, Mr DA.

Man, you Honda guys...always acting like you're better than the rest!





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post #80 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 9:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
Man, you Honda guys...always acting like you're better than the rest!
so who's acting? We have DID chain on our Honders.
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post #81 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 9:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
On the contrary, involving RK would enable them to provide valid, indisputable evidence, irrespective of your cleaning methods,
putting this long drama... errrr, court case....to rest, Mr DA.
Let me put that on the back burner for now. No danger in losing any evidence, can only get more. Double jeopardy won't attach in this case. On a related note, I have an RK master link due to arrive here in a few days. And from my favorite vendor . Lets see what that looks like when it arrives.

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post #82 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-26-2019, 2:13 PM
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Why is “wrong box” wrong? It could be new design and different from previous.

A copycat would clone genuine RK box. Simpler and easier to pass off.

Only ones who can confirm is RK themselves.
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post #83 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-26-2019, 5:31 PM Thread Starter
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^ Clearly the wrong box. It's marked "0-ring", and not "X-ring". I'm buying X-rings, not O-rings.
Not a new design, they still have X-ring boxes.

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post #84 of 102 (permalink) Old 11-2-2019, 8:05 PM Thread Starter
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Evidence for the defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpe View Post
On a related note, I have an RK master link due to arrive here in a few days. And from my favorite vendor . Lets see what that looks like when it arrives.
Update:
The master link arrived. I miss spoke on who it came from. It actually came from an MC dealer in Texas. And it came packaged in the funky loose and dry packaging. So at least there is a verified MC dealer passing it off as legit.

On a side note:
I'm almost tempted to get that $30 chain. I noticed no one has jumped on it yet.

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post #85 of 102 (permalink) Old 11-2-2019, 11:16 PM
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better jump on it, Mr Prosecutor, the statue of limitations is running out on your case

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post #86 of 102 (permalink) Old 11-2-2019, 11:35 PM
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the last RK chain I bought for the gen 1 was £21 [approx. 28 USD] took it off this spring not because it was worn out but because it had gone rusty [my fault though] I kept the bike running last year far longer than normal due to a milder winter. and didn't do the maintenance it needed when eventually parked it up for the rest of the winter.

that chain had no visible wear in either the chain or the sprockets it had 4k on it and one adjustment only. now yes it was a standard chain and the cheaper [for some reason] 120 link so may not fall within the parameters of the discussion. just saying if cheap RK chains are fake. their dam good ones.
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post #87 of 102 (permalink) Old 11-3-2019, 7:26 AM Thread Starter
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The $30 chain I'm referring to was an X-ring (or at least the seller says it is), which would be a much more low ball price than your $28 non O-ring. I'll use Cycle Gear as an example, as different retailors have different mark ups. They will sell the RK 520 X-ring chain ( 104-126 links) for around $110. They sell the RK 520 non O-ring chain of the same length for around $45.

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post #88 of 102 (permalink) Old 11-4-2019, 4:28 AM
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What's a chain? And sprockets? I have checked my 650 Seca and Guzzi several times now... nothing.

Are they inside the engine or something

I finally figured out why I like Ducatis: With their exhaust note and dry clutch, they sound almost like a Guzzi!
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post #89 of 102 (permalink) Old 11-4-2019, 5:53 AM Thread Starter
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Question:
What's worse than a fake drive chain?

Answer:
A fake drive belt.

Beware
The Rubberband Man



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post #90 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-1-2019, 1:06 AM
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I recently ordered, and just received my spankin' new RK 520 XSO ring gold chain. Sold and delivered by Amazon.



I checked all the available RK 520 chains listed on Amazon. All save one fell into the same price bracket. The one I ordered was 106 link chain, which was cheaper than the standard 120 link and the others just slightly shorter than that.



I paid $87 delivered to my door. After it arrived today, I pulled it out of the box to give it a once over, and satisfy my curiosity over whether I might have a counterfeit RK or not.


Upon inspection, the packaging inside was consistent with all other RK chains I've ever purchased. The master link package had the RK logo on it, and the GB520 XSO also. When I checked the chain, the proper RK logo was etched on one link (had to rub off the lithium grease through the plastic bag) as well as the GB520XSO and "JAPAN". All that checks out consistent with the real deal.



This is for my project SS bike which is why I ordered it in 106 links. According to the factory manual, it is supposed to be 102 links for the OEM gearing.



However, I've gone up teeth on the rear sprocket to a 40 tooth rear. Stock is 37. Given the increased diameter of the rear sprocket, I needed to compensate with a longer chain. I chose 106 figuring that should cover the change with a couple links left over.



I'll follow up, once I have it installed and ridden it enough that it needs adjusting. IOW, if you don't see a further post, it means the chain hasn't required adjustment since installation.



Given that it will probably get ridden around 1K miles a year, the first adjustment might not be for a couple of years............sean
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post #91 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-1-2019, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
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@Apriliarider


Does the box look like the one on the bottom here? The one on top is obviously wrong. But I know that they have another one that is different than the one on the bottom that is just used for marketing purposes, which is fine, I don't hold anything against RK for that. But if you do have the other one a picture of it would be nice.


Which master link did you get? The packaging on the top I never saw until the last year or two.

Most importantly the "logo" you speak of I assume is the 2 circling arrows with Japanese letters/words in the middle. I have stated earlier what is stamped on the chain links, and a logo is not one of them. If you have a chain with a logo stamped on it, especially if you have always gotten a chain with a logo stamped on it, I really urge you to post a picture of that. I know you know how to do it, so this would be critical for the thread IMO.


On a side note:
I would have never thought that your Ducati would have taken a 520 size chain. I knew you were using an RK, just didn't realize you were using the exact chain that I was, even down to the X-ring. This is great for comparison purposes.

2006 Ninja500R Purchased new July 2006; 0 miles. Miles as of January 2020; 108,827 . It's a GO bike, not a SHOW bike.
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post #92 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-2-2019, 1:20 AM
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I'll have to get a pic for you tomorrow. And lay mine out like you've laid yours out. Mine is a GB520EXO ring chain and the box reflects that. Mine also did not come with a clip type master.



My box looks more similar to the bottom of the two you posted but it is not exact. Also, mine is, as stated previously only 106 links. That makes it slightly cheaper than ones with more length. IIRC, the 120 link version of mine is $118 on Amazon.



Yes, the old Supersports used a 520 pitch chain. I can't say it's odd or out of the ordinary but back in 1993 when my Supersport was manufactured, everyone else was using 530 chains. That's what is on my 1992 GSXR as well as on my old 1989 ZX-7.



The pic you posted of the chain all laid out looks like a legit chain. If I looked at it, I'd not suspect it to be counterfeit......sean


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post #93 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-2-2019, 7:17 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apriliarider View Post
Mine is a GB520EXO ring chain
Is this a typo?
Quote:
I recently ordered, and just received my spankin' new RK 520 XSO ring gold chain.
You referred to it as an XSO earlier.

A note to those not familiar with RK chains:


The GB in Apriliariders number means nothing more than it is the gold color version.
You can actually get the chain in several colors, including even Kawasaki green. ( Thought I would give RK a little plug there).


@Apriliarider :
Also which packaging did your master link come in?
Most importantly I would like to see a pic of the logo etched on the chain. As that is not on any of my chains.
Could it be each and every chain I have ever got was fake?

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post #94 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-2-2019, 10:20 PM
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It was a typo. Here is a picture of the box with the chain and master:



I'll have to go back out to the garage and get a picture of the RK on the chain links. It is not stamped, rather it is etched...like laser etched I think. I just know any of the lettering on the chain is black compared to the gold of the link....actually you can see what it looks like on the box.....sean


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post #95 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-2-2019, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpe View Post

The GB in Apriliariders number means nothing more than it is the gold color version.
You can actually get the chain in several colors, including even Kawasaki green. ( Thought I would give RK a little plug there).


@Apriliarider :
I would like to see a pic of the logo etched on the chain. As that is not on any of my chains.
Could it be each and every chain I have ever got was fake?

Okay, first off, here you go:




At the bottom left of the pic, you can see the RK through the plastic and shitty shipping grease. Now, that is not on every single link. More like every 5th link or so you'll find an etching. RK and then the GB520XSO and then Japan. Every 5th link you'll find one of those three things.



As for the Kawasaki green chain.....that would be EK rather than RK. RK makes a plain steel chain, and a gold titanium nitrided chain. They make both in all manner of O-Ring or non o-ring chain. Not ever seen any "color" chains. Seen plenty of EK chains with various colors..........sean


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post #96 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-3-2019, 8:28 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah, we have all seen the letters RK on the chains. I thought you was saying that there was a logo etched on the chain. So everything you have seems to be following suit, including the new way of packaging the master link.

You may be right about EK being the only chain that comes in green, I thought RK also had one. I will check and see on that.

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post #97 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-3-2019, 8:46 AM Thread Starter
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Update:
Some but not all RK chains come in different colors besides natural and gold. The 520XSO is one of them.
https://rkexcelamerica.com/products/rk-chains/
They have to be special ordered from a dealer or vendor that sells RK chains. As RK themselves won't sell direct.

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post #98 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-3-2019, 9:23 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apriliarider View Post
More like every 5th link or so you'll find an etching. RK and then the GB520XSO and then Japan. Every 5th link you'll find one of those three things.
Actually

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpe View Post

On the plate stamps there are 4 stamps as follows:
RK
Japan
520xso1
And a random 4 digit number that is different from chain to chain, but remains consistent on any one given chain. (some sort of lot number)

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post #99 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-5-2019, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpe View Post
Yeah, we have all seen the letters RK on the chains. I thought you was saying that there was a logo etched on the chain. So everything you have seems to be following suit, including the new way of packaging the master link.

You may be right about EK being the only chain that comes in green, I thought RK also had one. I will check and see on that.
Uhhh....yeah. RK is the logo. On the box, it's a simple block letter RK. Same as on the chain, and the packaging. Never seen it displayed differently than that.........not saying there isn't one around, but I've never seen a different one. Maybe the decals are slightly different.



The older ones I remember (and still have) were the RK logo on top with "Takasago Chain" below. The new ones, the ones that came with the last two chains I've bought have the RK logo above with "Racing Chain" below.



The very first time I purchased an RK chain, way back in the very early 1990s the dealer I bought it from referred to it as an RK Takasago chain. The logo on the box reflected that. Like the box you posted with the "O-Ring Chain" on it. That's what they looked like back then......sean


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post #100 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-5-2019, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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In Conclusion

Just to give a thumbs up to RK.
No concrete evidence was found to suggest that fake RK chains are available. But if in the future if I find something new, I will update. And of coarse if anyone else comes across new evidence, it would be great to hear about that.

I will be sticking with the RK 520XSO chain. A great chain for the EX. It has a tensile strength of 8,300 lbs. Designed for bikes up to 80HP. The gold version and colored versions would be cool looking, and you would not be down grading the quality of the chain by using one of these, as they too have the exact tensile strength of 8,300 lbs. (Also good up to 80HP.) I would be leery of using the regular "O-ring" chain, as it only has a tensile strength of 6,900 lbs. and designed for bikes up to 60HP. While the 60HP would still be within the spec of the EX, a little too close for comfort for me. They even go on to say it is really for bikes 400cc or less. With the X-ring chain (XSO) good up to 750cc. It would still be OK to bump it up a notch and get the Z-ring chain, don't have the specs in my head but can be found in the link a couple of post's up. For me, since the specs for the X-ring fits well with my bike, I'm good with that one.

On a side note:
In all this I did manage to learn a new way to determine when a chain needs to be replaced. Looking at the square shapes on the end of the pins, if 1 or more isn't lined up parallel to the others, then the chain needs to be replaced. I just thought I would put that out there, it was a new one on me.


P.S.
To the member that sent me a PM on this subject, I will keep you anonymous for now since the communication was made via PM. I think you made a very wise decision to go with the RK Z-ring chain. As your riding a much more powerful bike than I am, I would have made the same choice . I may end up talking you into a meet up at the Tail of the Dragon next year, hey it could happen . I have all the confidence that Z-ring chain will get you there, back, and then some .

2006 Ninja500R Purchased new July 2006; 0 miles. Miles as of January 2020; 108,827 . It's a GO bike, not a SHOW bike.
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