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chain suggestions

6K views 46 replies 15 participants last post by  DannoXYZ 
#1 ·
Hi all.

I'm running a DID o-ring chain, and I am totally dissatisfied with it. The thing has always had stiff links. I have had to tighten it again and again. I thought maybe the stiff links were due to newness, but it has only gotten worse. Now, with only 4k on this chain and sprocket set, I have to replace them. Having put over 40k on the original chain (an Enuma, according to the sticker on the chain guard) with zero trouble of this kind, I'm not happy with this new one, to put it mildly.

Do any of you have suggestions for a good chain and sprocket set? I don't care about colors. I don't care about lightness. I am not racing. I just want a good set that will last a long time if I take care of it. I am reluctant to switch to the "X ring" chains, which cost more. I was perfectly satisfied with the original chain, which was o-ring.

I have always maintained the chain the way the owner's manual says. I use 90 weight oil every 300 miles or so, and I clean it with kerosene every other oiling. I thought I was doing a good job because the original chain, also an o-ring, lasted so long and worked so well. Have they altered o-ring chains in recent years so that they no longer stand up to this treatment so that you have to use that "chain wax" stuff now? This was supposed to be a good chain, so I have to wonder.

I suspect some of the o rings on this DID chain were bad when I got it. It was covered with white grease when I took it out of the bag, but it has always felt stiff in places.

I have considered switching to a non sealed chain. I am willing to clean and oil a chain as often as I have to, but to pay for o-rings on a chain that never worked right and that force me to get new chain and sprocket set... let's just say it irritates me.


Thanks to you all.
 
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#2 ·
I've always used the Bike Master brand and I get them from my dealership. They're not the most expensive...but they're not the cheapest either. But the fact that they come from the dealership I know they're, generally, pretty good quality.

As for chain maintenance...there's numerous threads and posts on this. Everyone seems to have their own method that "works the best"! Me, I just switched to usining the Motul chain lube and use the Pro Honda chain cleaner with a Grunge Brush every 300-500 miles.
 
#3 ·
I have always used the RK XSO chain. But that is an X-ring chain. Are you sure the DID you have isn't an X-ring. X-ring chains also have O-rings. I would have been real leery using any chain for 40,000 miles. They can only stretch so far and stay with in a safe limit.
 
#4 ·
Thanks, I will check out bikemaster to compare.

It was definitely a DID o-ring chain. Bought it from sprocket center because I'd heard such good things about them. And I would not have kept the original 40K had it been stretching. The tension was always right with that thing, except at the end when I replaced it. Or if it was stretching, it was doing it so slowly that it never had a chance to get out of spec before time for a rear tire change. I will check out the RK XSOs, thanks.

I have been reading articles in the on-line moto mags and some do in fact say I'm not supposed to be using kerosene as a cleaner on an o-ring. So if that it true, I may've messed it up.
 
#5 ·
Like bpe, I prefer RK. I've used them for decades now, and won't bother with anything else if I can help it. Hey, an emergency is an emergency after all.



I ran an XSO ring chain on my old ZX7 for 25K miles. I swapped for a cheaper chain because at that mileage, there was no adjustment left in the "adjusters".



The cheaper chain lasted just 2K miles. It was stretched, missing o-rings, and the rollers had so much slop in them the chain made one hell of a racket. No amount of gear oil was gonna help that chain.



Lesson learned. The next XSO ring chain from RK lasted around 14K before I decided it was time to change it out. Not 'cause it was worn out but I'd decided to never let my chains get to the point where I had to change them.



To this day, 25K is the most I've ever gotten out of a chain. I never "push the limit" now. The consequences of losing a chain in the middle of nowhere are too great. Now, 14-15K is the max.



And that's with proper chain tension, checked every other ride to make sure. Proper lubrication (I use 85W140 full synthetic gear oil) applied to a clean chain. And routine cleaning to make sure there isn't a bunch of gunk on it forming a "lapping compound" to lap away my sprockets..........sean
 
#8 · (Edited)
#9 ·
FWIW....a direct quote right from RK /Excel America (the importer) website instructions....."Do not use kerosene or WD40 on a sealed chain"

sealed meaning o or x ring

here's the link (ouch, see what I did there? :grin2: ) http://rkexcelamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/1461079033a68e02b1b46743bafb1f09a74a0687b3.pdf

scroll to page 2 for the exact recommendation I quoted
Interesting.

I've never heard of Kerosene affecting 0-ring seals.

Wonder if the other manufactures spell it out anywhere.
 
#15 ·
There in is why I use gear oil for chain lube. I did so back in the day, like 20+ years ago but got away from it with all the chain lube sprays available. I went back to it because I found accelerated o-ring deterioration when sticking with chain lube sprays.



I've almost always used mineral spirits for a cleaner though. Sure, there were times when I used WD40 because I was out of mineral spirits. WD40 is mainly Stoddards solvent....over 50% of it anyway. That's basically dry cleaning solvent or "white spirits".



The cleaning of the chain is crucial for its life. Use a jet of water to remove any mud, soil, sand
or dirt build-up and immediately dry the chain using compressed air, blown from a distance of
at least 30 cm".

I've always been taught (some of that through chain manufacturer propaganda) to not ever use pressure washers to clean a chain as high pressure water could be forced past the o-rings and into the rollers. Admittedly that blurb sounds to me, to be more directed at dirt bike chains rather than road chains. I can't recall ever having dirt, mud, soil or sand build up on my chain. Chain lube mixed with sand and dust, sure. That's what I call lapping compound........sean
 
#12 ·
And this from page 5 of a Ducati Chain Service Bulletin here https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10152834-9999.pdf

"The cleaning of the chain is crucial for its life. Use a jet of water to remove any mud, soil, sand
or dirt build-up and immediately dry the chain using compressed air, blown from a distance of
at least 30 cm".

Obvious that available information is wildly varying and contradictory. I'm sure there are many other advisories out there.
 
#13 ·
and a DID official video on chain maintenance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TMUPaclp_Y#action=share
featuring a nice Ducati 900SS/FE (final edition) ...not a setup, i had no idea, really.

evidently, DID markets its own canned spray chain cleaner as shown ....and specify using NO kero, lacquer thinners, gasoline, parts cleaners, etc.

also a Japanese language DID factory vid (subtitled) again encouraging use of their branded cleaner and lube...however no warning on what NOT to use in this vid.

I guess cleaner choice is going to boil down to our own, individual preferences.
 
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#18 ·
I'm considering doing something almost everyone here will probably tell me is a bad idea. Or at least an impractical one. I'm gonna order an RK chain, but an old-school, unsealed roller type. I don't like being dependent on the state of o- or X or Z rings. (I hate having to throw away a newish chain and sprocket set too because some tiny pieces of rubber werent' right). and I don't like having worry about whether the cleaner/lube I choose to use is good for the rings. With an unsealed chain I can soak it in kerosene if I want/need to, knowing it is only doing good things for the chain. I'll let you all know how it goes...
 
#20 ·
@ducatiman I would hope no one would suggest using gasoline or lacquer thinner to clean a chain. :surprise:[/QUOTE]

Hey, i was simply laying out various choices from various sources, including their warnings to NOT use gasoline, creating some healthy forum debate maybe? There is no doubt gasoline and flammables have been used in the past though clearly NOT advisable on a number of levels.

Re: gasoline....about 10 years ago in this very forum, a member was posting about how he was going to build an electric, 110V plug in the wall "shaker" tub device to clean his chain, filling the open tub with gasoline, choosing some sort of electric motor and self wiring to do so. I IMMEDIATELY jumped in his poop with an obvious warning both to him and "copycats"....a tub of gasoline and a self chosen, self wired open electric motor are a disaster waiting to happen. I guess the concept of gas fumes and internal spark in the motor hadn't occurred to the "designer" as dangerous. Imagine a young member "copycat", new to mechanics and electrics attempting to clone this.
At the time of this forum "suggestion", at work (Heavy Equipment dealer) a coworker had severely burned his hands in a remote field location cleaning parts with gas. Therefore I was inspired to shut this incredibly dangerous idea down.
So, given the opportunity now, I'll double down....NEVER EVER consider gasoline to clean chain or use on anything other than filling the inside your tank.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I'm also surprised at the suggestion of hosing the chain with water, especially "a jet of water". I try to avoid water on my street bike chains. Sometimes dirt bikes need a good bath, and the chain gets it too.

I think I'll continue to use Kerosene, but not spraying it on the chain liberally. Kerosene works really well to remove old lube, so maybe just spraying it on a rag. I usually don't lube my chain super heavy, and wipe off any that seems excessive after it has dried a bit. The chain stays pretty clean for the most part and doesn't really require much cleaning before lubing.

I've got about 14,000 mi on my OEM chain and sprockets on my 650, and they are nowhere near the end of the adjustment or close to needing replacement. Maintenance pays off IMO.
 
#22 ·
Why do I get the feeling this is just beginning? :laugh:

There are a number of articles from lubricant manufacturers and control tests on the effects of various chemicals on motorcycle chain o rings. Some conclusions are proven, some are opinion, possibly to favor a manufacturers product.

From what I've seen, Kerosene is fine for cleaning, with WD-40 OK, but less desirable for a couple reasons. A citrous based bug 'n' tar remover might be OK, in fact that's what I suspect the WD-40 Chain cleaner might be. That last sentence is just pure speculation on my part, though.
 
#23 · (Edited)
yup, its boiling down to a "what oil should I use?" , controversial type subject.

Lotta new products out there from proven, established manufacturers too, some worthy of trying.

Personally to this point......DID X ring chains on all my stuff, no issues, using WD40 to clean as the spray is on the shelf anyways and convenient. Maxima chain wax my chosen lube.
 
#26 ·
Using paraffin (UK) or Kerosene on such a regular basis I dont get? I have used it on bikes I have bought the once where the chain and surrounding areas are covered in multiple layers of thick glue like chain lubricant. Once done I never need to use it again if applying gear oil regularly. Prior to oiling, the chain gets a wipe with wd40 applied to a cloth to remove any surface grime collected.
 
#27 ·
Sealed chains need lube only at the rollers where they contact the sprockets. I have an RK 520XSO on my EX and it does not get dirty. Neither does it need adjustment more than 'maybe' once per year. And, maybe not.



I use Dupont chain saver on a wool swab and lightly coat the rollers as I rotate the rear wheel. I do this at the end of a ride after each fill-up. That way, the solvents have time to dry and the lube does not fling off on my next ride. Probably 15K on the chain and it is doing fine. The way to keep a chain clean is not to gunk it up with tons of lube that attract and hold road grit.



I have a JT 520 X1R2 to try on my spare EX. JT is huge in the sprocket world and their chains seem to be rated fairly well.
 

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#28 ·
Sealed chains need lube only at the rollers where they contact the sprockets. I have an RK 520XSO on my EX and it does not get dirty. Neither does it need adjustment more than 'maybe' once per year. And, maybe not.
Bingo... Because the pins and bushings on an o-ring chain are sealed and lubed for life, the pitch of the chain doesn't increase and that, in turn, minimizes wear on the sprockets. The only reason to apply anything at all to the links is to prevent rust and keep the chain looking good. A thin film is sufficient; more than that just turns the chain into a dirt magnet and accomplishes nothing.
 
#30 ·
Do any of you know how difficult it would be to switch to 530 chain and sprockets? I ask because i'm looking at the specs on plain unsealed roller chains and almost all the 520 sizes are intended for 400cc or less. Even the "heavy duty" chains by RK and EK are for smaller bikes, ATVS, etc. The exception seems to be the Bikemaster plain chain. They rate theirs for a 650 or something. Not sure I want to go with that brand. But if I moved up to 530 I'd have a lot more options.

Thanks.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Do any of you know how difficult it would be to switch to 530 chain and sprockets? I ask because i'm looking at the specs on plain unsealed roller chains and almost all the 520 sizes are intended for 400cc or less. Even the "heavy duty" chains by RK and EK are for smaller bikes, ATVS, etc. The exception seems to be the Bikemaster plain chain. They rate theirs for a 650 or something. Not sure I want to go with that brand. But if I moved up to 530 I'd have a lot more options.

Thanks.
I dunno if you can even get sprockets to fit a 530 chain for an EX500. Stick with a 520.....don't even worry about the CC the chain is intended for....not exactly material to the exercise.


Just look at the chain's rated tensile strength. If the stock chain is rated at 8,000 lbs, does it matter if that force comes from a 400cc or 500cc engine? Seriously, a 520 chain that has a tensile strength of over 8K lbs should work just fine. Just throwing the numbers out there....I think the stock EX chain isn't even rated to that....but I could be wrong. 8K lbs I think is for 750cc bikes or bigger.



I wanna say the EX chain was rated around 6K lbs but it's been so long since I looked at one, I don't remember anymore. Just leave the 530 chains alone. Almost everyone swapped out to a 525 years ago. A 530 was standard on like a GSXR1100 back in the day. It's a fatter chain too, and needs a fatter sprocket to go with it. All that means a lot of unneeded extra weight.


Almost everything that big today comes with a 525 chain. All the 1K twins do for sure. And many owners ditch the 525 and swap for a 520. IOW, I don't think you can go wrong with a 520. Compare the tensile strength, and roll on. Rocket science it ain't..........sean
 
#34 ·
Thanks to you all.

Sean, I was looking at the tensile strengths of the roller chains and thinking something along the lines of what you are saying, but I didn't know enough to be sure. So thank you. I was trying to figure out why
a roller chain with a 7K plus lb rating would be for only 350cc and less when comparable sealed chains were for much larger bikes. I thought it was either for legal reasons or for money reasons, but I again I didn't know. So I'm glad I'm not going to be changing sprocket sizes.

PO108guy, It's only the unsealed roller chains I was looking at that had really low cc ratings. The X rings like the ones you link seem always rated for much more powerful motorcycles. Which, again, makes me wonder: why?

Anyway, I went ahead and ordered the bikemaster 520 heavy duty roller chain. 8k tensile strength. And the specifications say it's for bikes up to 750cc. Again, I was reluctant to get it because I wanted a good brand of chain, but I respect the fact that they admit their chain will work on a bike up to 750cc when others, for whatever reason, insist that theirs are only for smaller bikes.

I ordered new steel JT sprockets to go with it. The DID o-ring chain that I am replacing chewed up the front sprocket. What an awful chain.
 
#35 ·
The DID o-ring chain that I am replacing chewed up the front sprocket. What an awful chain.
Heh....there are those who swear by DID chains. Kinda like how I swear by RK. Personal preference based in good or poor experiences......you'll find your favorite over time......sean
 
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#36 ·
The tensile strength relates to the side plates and I suppose to some extent on the pins. But, such up-rated chains also tend to have superior link pins and bushings, better X/O/W rings and simply last longer. A 750cc rated chain on an EX is going to last a good, long time. My RK 520XSO has about 15K on it and shows no sign of giving up. Go to Amazon Warehouse and you can find the JT chains, usually new but repackaged, for about $40. Killer deal. They frequently have JT, RK, D.I.D. Renthal and others.
 
#37 ·
. Go to Amazon Warehouse and you can find the JT chains, usually new but repackaged, for about $40. Killer deal. They frequently have JT, RK, D.I.D. Renthal and others.
That's usually where I get my chains from. Sometimes you can find a kit, complete with sprockets and all for not much over $80. I buy local when I don't have time to wait for Amazon......sean
 
#39 ·
Just commenting on chains in general.

- 99.9 percent of premature sprocket wear issues are due to not enough chain slack. The front sprocket will always wear faster than the rear.
- too much chain slack is annoying for the driveline lash it causes, also make sure there is NO slack in the throttle cables if you have driveline lash
- keeping your chain clean and lubed (lube at least every second tank of fuel or 400 miles) will help it last longer as will adjusting chain tension to within spec.
- if replacing the chain invest in an X Ring chain unless durability and parasitic drag does not matter (520 size)
- buy a chain crimper/pin pusher and it's helpful to have the use of a grinder or Dremel too. The tool will cost about ($60) and you'll always have it.
- don't be like me and waste money on a chain alignment tool, string works better and is mostly free
 
#40 ·
An update on the use of Kerosene to clean a chain -

My son works for a company that uses Regina chains, and said the factory rep says Regina recommends cleaning with Kerosene. Strange that all the chain companies don't agree on the use of Kerosene for cleaning.

He also said when the factory rep checks chain slack they use very minimal force with 1 finger to lift the chain to check slack - no pulling or pushing.
 
#41 ·
That sounds entirely reasonable. Too much force checking slack with exaggerate or magnify the slack, tending to make the rider run the chain too tight. As to differences in recommendation for paraffin/kerosene use, it might have to do with the type of vinyl/rubber used in the sealing rings.
 
#42 ·
I don't remember if we touched base on this or not. Kawasaki also recommends using kerosene to clean the chain, at least the original Enuma.


And when the Enuma does wear out, they would prefer you to replace it with another Enuma @$300+. :surprise:
 
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