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07 Ducati SS800 '95 Ducati 900SS/SP '19 Honda CBR650R
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yup, that time o' year yet again. Anyone? Post up, ok?
 

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I haven't posted for awhile, I figure this would be interesting to document.

Er-5 bars on an EX. I've lurked and I haven't seen any definitive results, so I'm going to try.
good luck. have you done any research on this and worked out how you're going to tackle it. obviously you can't just fit the top yolk on it's own without some form of line boring or using the btm ER yolk as well, as the rake angle on the two models are different.
just as some sort of guide for pointers the headstock shaft (ER) is slightly longer, so will need a spacer. the bearings are slightly different sizes, use ER ones the outside diameter is the same but the EX ones are too tight to fit the shaft. also you will have to alter the steering lock plate or it will not work and the side to side movement is too great and the forks will foul the radiator on full lock.

Fuel tank Vehicle Automotive lighting Automotive tire Motor vehicle
 

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07 Ducati SS800 '95 Ducati 900SS/SP '19 Honda CBR650R
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
been there, done that....eh yorkie?
 

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Planning a biggish project with 3 main objectives for mine
1. Stripping the bike down to have the frame powder coated (and possibly the wheels as well)
2. Putting it on a diet, I've already started on this through the year. Stock bike is 177kg in stock road trim, I'd like to get down to 160kg or less and keep it road legal, this is for track days and fun back road blasts.
3. Increase power ~10% through K&N filter, less restrictive exhaust + Dynajet kit and carb tune.

2+3 above should result in a bike with slightly better pwr to weight than the current Ninja 650 which is a porky 209kgs and 71hp; and get close to the new R7 pwr to weight. which is also 70ish hp but only 188kgs
 

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sounds interesting. couple of thoughts. when powder coating get it all done at once it's far cheaper. when I had mine done (2015) I asked the cost for the frame. quoted £80. ask how much extra for all the bits doing £10 extra. so took the frame, swing arm, centre stand, brake lever, and every bracket on the bike, (wheels were done already) when I went to pick them he wanted to charge me just the £90 for all if it. I gave him $100 for job well done.
it makes reassembly so much better with it it all coated. and don't reuse any bearings or seals false economy.

2. good luck sounds like a challenge.
3. personally and by general consensus waste of time there is next to no extra power to be had and still keep it reliable best you could do "fog airbox mod" and high flow air filter. reducing back pressure and jet kits do not work so well on the EX cause more trouble than they are worth. you could try and make sure the engine is as good as gets (perhaps degree the cams renew the worn bits clean it up. try and get it as near new HP as possible yours could be down on power.
 

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sounds interesting. couple of thoughts. when powder coating get it all done at once it's far cheaper. when I had mine done (2015) I asked the cost for the frame. quoted £80. ask how much extra for all the bits doing £10 extra. so took the frame, swing arm, centre stand, brake lever, and every bracket on the bike, (wheels were done already) when I went to pick them he wanted to charge me just the £90 for all if it. I gave him $100 for job well done.
it makes reassembly so much better with it it all coated. and don't reuse any bearings or seals false economy.

2. good luck sounds like a challenge.
Not as difficult as first sounds: Lower fairing 1.4kg; Exhaust change 5-6kg; centre stand off ~2.5kg; passenger foot rests+luggage handles+helmet locks 1kg = 10kg without trying too hard.

3. personally and by general consensus waste of time there is next to no extra power to be had and still keep it reliable best you could do "fog airbox mod" and high flow air filter. reducing back pressure and jet kits do not work so well on the EX cause more trouble than they are worth. you could try and make sure the engine is as good as gets (perhaps degree the cams renew the worn bits clean it up. try and get it as near new HP as possible yours could be down on power.
I'm not going to get into this debate too hard but it is possible, have a former Kawasaki tech (current Ducati tech and shop owner) who used to tune these bikes for racing back in the day, he knows his stuff and this is his recommendation.
 

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"I'm not going to get into this debate too hard but it is possible, have a former Kawasaki tech (current Ducati tech and shop owner) who used to tune these bikes for racing back in the day, he knows his stuff and this is his recommendation."

no debate required "anything is possible" just there is a whole lot of difference between a stock bike that's reliable for 100k and a race bike that's reliable for up to 1k before it needs rebuilding. for every bit of safety margin that's lost reduces the longevity it will run. "been there done that" got the "T" shirt.
 

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no debate required "anything is possible" just there is a whole lot of difference between a stock bike that's reliable for 100k and a race bike that's reliable for up to 1k before it needs rebuilding. for every bit of safety margin that's lost reduces the longevity it will run. "been there done that" got the "T" shirt.
How about just reading what I wrote? I'm not building a race bike, I'm not rebuilding and changing engine internals (it's only done 5200miles). The bike had K&N internal airfilter with standard airbox, It has effectively standard twin downpipes with lightweight cans that are more free following (but still baffled), I'm simply adding a proven Dynojet stage 1 re-jetting kit to the carbs to make the most of the air filter and exhaust - engine breathing 101. It should result in smoother midrange and a slightly improved top end. That's it.
 

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what I did read was a 10% increase to bring the EX500 and get close to the new R7 pwr to weight. which is also 70ish hp but only 188kgs. with a few little goodies. ok good luck. as for jet kits ask @ducatiman how good they are.
this is a well-trodden path, you would do well to read the forum archives and history of the engine.
the power quoted in the book of 60hp is the top end for a perfect engine in perfect tune which is remarkable for power unit that was designed to be around 45hp this means Kawasaki has tuned this engine to the rowlocks already, most engines are well below this figure. to cut this post short many have claimed extra power gains without major engine work but not one has ever provided dyno evidence to back it up. I'll leave it there.
 

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what I did read was a 10% increase to bring the EX500 and get close to the new R7 pwr to weight. which is also 70ish hp but only 188kgs. with a few little goodies. ok good luck. as for jet kits ask @ducatiman how good they are.
this is a well-trodden path, you would do well to read the forum archives and history of the engine.
the power quoted in the book of 60hp is the top end for a perfect engine in perfect tune which is remarkable for power unit that was designed to be around 45hp this means Kawasaki has tuned this engine to the rowlocks already, most engines are well below this figure. to cut this post short many have claimed extra power gains without major engine work but not one has ever provided dyno evidence to back it up. I'll leave it there.
Power to weight, two parts to an equation, I'm aiming primarily on the weight side with a tweak on the power side.
Stock 2020 onwards Ninja 650: 193kg (209kg previous model) @ 67hp = 0.35 hp/kg
Stock 2022 Yam R7: 188kg @ 72hp = 0.38 hp/kg

Stock 2003 GPZ500S: 177kg @ 60hp = 0.34 hp/kg v close to the Ninja 650 off the bat
My bike currently: 167kg @ 60hp = 0.36 hp/kg already better than Ninja 650
Target weight bike: 160kg @ 60hp = 0.37 hp/kg better than the Ninja 650 and getting close to the R7
Target weight and pwr: 160kg @ 65hp = 0.41 hp/kg whopping ass on both bikes (you gotta dream)
 

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yeah ok whatever. theory is one thing in practice is another. I would suggest you get your associate to run it on a dyno first to get base line I think you will be surprised how much you have to work with. then when finish publish the true statistics. as I said earlier this is a well-trodden path. until then Yorkie's out.
 

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EN500 is the untuned and a bare bones engine the EX500 is already tuned to be in a sport bike style bike, getting more out of it well worthy of the "good luck" and have had many try, and never report back as they likely failed as it is more affordable to buy a trackable 600 or other and tune that one. But hey it sounds like an awesome winter project and look forward to your posting and reporting on your successes.
 

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yeah ok whatever. theory is one thing in practice is another. I would suggest you get your associate to run it on a dyno first to get base line I think you will be surprised how much you have to work with. then when finish publish the true statistics. as I said earlier this is a well-trodden path. until then Yorkie's out.
THE PRIMARY F ING FOCUS IS ON THE WEIGHT REDUCTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY SO HUNG UP ON THE MENTION OF PWR????????????????????????
IF I GET SOME GAINS IN PWR GREAT, IF I DONT I DONT - I'LL DEFINITELY GET SOME F KING GAINS IN WEIGHT REDUCTION WHICH IS THE MAIN FOCUS.

Theory is used to define and measure against - and most of what I put above is actually fact - real bikes, real numbers, real practical maths - setting a target and trying to achieve it.
 

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no need to "SHOUT" we're not deaf. it's your target go for it. let us know how you get on.
it's not for anyone else to argue what anyone else does with their bike. our primary function is as a group of experienced owners using our knowledge and expertise to help other owners with less knowledge fix their bikes when they go wrong and hopefully keep this great little bike on the road.
anything else is just a discussion of ideas and amongst those ideas is what is possible or not possible different folk have different ideas. that's fine carry on and peace to all.
 
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