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Discussion Starter #1
On my favorite car site there's been quite a discussion on best engine oil to use.
Since our bikes don't get used in the mega-cold part of winter, and they are water cooled....

What brand & viscosity range work best for us?
What store has the best buy?
(I use Mobile 1 5-30 synthetic in my car. Will that work in an EX500?)
 

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not recommended to use that light an oil. I use 10W-40 in all my bikes. full synthetic is my preference, but everyone has their own opinions on this.
 
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I run 10w-40 in my bike. Currently using Castrol. Haven't had any problems with it, so it's likely what I'll stick with for now.
 

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there's a big difference between a car engine and a motorcycle engine. probably the most important difference is the clutch. in a car, the clutch is typically a dry type, or doesn't share the same sump with the engine. on a motorcycle (spcificly this one) the clutch IS wet, and uses the same oil to lubricate it's parts that the engine does. because of this, the oil MUST have certain properties that do not allow the clutch plates to slip. It has been shown that, generally speaking, oils that are labled as "Energy Conserving" contain friction modifiers (or Moly) not suited to a wet clutch system. because of that, you must use an oil that is either certified JASO-MA or one that contains trace amounts of Moly to no moly at all. typically, all multi weight w30 grade oils all are "Energy Conserving" and are thus unsuited for operation in a wet clutch motorcycle. That said, you can never go wrong using a motorcycle specific oil. if you dabble around the auto parts store you will likly find other 10w40 oils that are not energy conserving. understand that while they may not say "Energy Conserving" on the API label, they very well may contain too much moly for the clutch. symptoms of a unsuited oil will be clutch slippage under load (while riding and/or accelerating).

There are many many manufactures that produce oils suitable to use in a motorcycle. Under regular change intervals, one oil will be no better than the other, as long as you change it. conventional oils degrade quickly, whereas synthetic oils last considerably longer. Amsoil is a great example. I use it in my bike and after half a season of riding after the break-in change it's still good (as per my oil analysis test concluded).

bottom line is, if you change your oil religously, one oil will be no better than another. Use whatever makes you smile. if them means using the cheapest conventional on the shelf... fine, just change it out when it's used up. there's no easy way to tell if the oil is used up though. the only way to know for sure is to get it tested. some oils don't hold up to the shearing forces that happen inside the transmission as well as others. so while, say, a Castrol will hold up well for 2000 miles that does NOT mean a penzoil will, or a QS, or M1, or a host of other lubricants. they might be similar, but they are not the same.

so choose wisely...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Knight, the wet clutch & JASO-MA info was news to me.

Can you guys suggest a good value source (good oil, best price)?
I'll ask that in the 1st posting too.
 

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True Enough on the wet clutch, but that's not really the significant difference between a car and a Bike Vis a Vis the oil used.
That fact is: This bike shares it engine oil with the transmission. Why this is significant is that, the gears chew up the long strand Polymers that give the oil it viscosity rating. This can reduce the Viscosity of your oil by half, in as little as 800 miles. I would never start out with less than 40 wt. in new oil for this reason.
Secondly, the next worse reason is the starter clutch. This little ditty need a modicum of friction to engage at all. Some "High milage" oils can make the rollers so slippery they cannot lock to the hub to spin the engine. You could find yourself with a starter that spins but won't crank the engine, and not even be able to bump start it because your main clutch slips so badly.

FOG
 

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i use rotella t..thats right, the stuff used in diesel engiens. iv heard alot of good things about the stuff, and my trans shifts better than ever now. gone through 2 oil changes of the stuff..everything is working beatufully. 15w-40 btw
 

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Knightslugger said:
There are many many manufactures that produce oils suitable to use in a motorcycle. Under regular change intervals, one oil will be no better than the other, as long as you change it. conventional oils degrade quickly, whereas synthetic oils last considerably longer. Amsoil is a great example. I use it in my bike and after half a season of riding after the break-in change it's still good (as per my oil analysis test concluded).
Do you do your own oil analysis? What is involved in testing the oil, I'm curious... I've always had the redneck approach, "Yup, its purty durty looking" It would be nice to know a more edumacted way to determine how used a batch of oil removed from my bike is...

^^^ Did that sentence come out funny? ugh, I need more sleep at night.
 

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I send mine in to be analyzed, if that's what you mean. basicly all you do is but a sample kit from Amsoil, collect a sample, seal it up, fill out the paperwork, and send it in. about a week later you get your test reults with a written summery of the oil's condition.

see attachment for a sample Amsoil test result.

[attachment deleted by admin]
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Knightslugger said:
I send mine in to be analyzed, if that's what you mean. basicly all you do is but a sample kit from Amsoil, collect a sample, seal it up, fill out the paperwork, and send it in. about a week later you get your test reults with a written summery of the oil's condition.

here's an example of Amsoil's report from TDIClub:

The image did not act like a hot button, for me anyway.

When I worked USAF F-111E aircrew debriefing (RAF Upper Heyford) the aircrew or crewchief would send a sample of the engine oil (synthetic) to be analyzed. They could tell when certain parts of the engine were going bad based on the metal bits or chemical byproducts of the extra heat/friction, etc.

It was cool. How much does Amzoil charge for their oil analysis (does it require membership)?
 

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Yes yes what does it cost? Do other oil brands offer the same tests?

Its almost like an at home drug test kit. collect, seal & send!
 

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ex_dsmr said:
i use rotella t..thats right, the stuff used in diesel engiens. iv heard alot of good things about the stuff, and my trans shifts better than ever now. gone through 2 oil changes of the stuff..everything is working beatufully. 15w-40 btw
I use the same stuff in both my bikes, works great.
 

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actually, the stuff for diesel engines really ain't that bad! it might not be rated to JASO-MA standards, but it does a wizz bang job at lubricating. i do suggest however buying the synthetic over the conventional stuff if you are going this route.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Knightslugger said:
actually, the stuff for diesel engines really ain't that bad! it might not be rated to JASO-MA standards, but it does a wizz bang job at lubricating. i do suggest however buying the synthetic over the conventional stuff if you are going this route.
So you guys are saying that a high quality motor/gearbox oil for our bikes is:
15w-40 synthetic diesel engine oil (esp if it meets JASO-MA)?

For 3-season use would 10w-40 be better?
 

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maverick9611 said:
i use amsoil
here is a good comparsion test with all major brands of motorcycle oils.
pick your poison


http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf

ps i'm not an amsoil dealer either, i just like the products
I read this amsoil so called test on Gixxer.com about 6 months ago and its crap, very skewed they picked and choose the oils they tested against or at least the results that were posted in this report. They can say it was done by an independent lab and so it was, but when Amsoil sent the oils to the lab they already knew the results, I mean why wouldn't you if you are the best test everyone's best oil, there are 2 fully syn grades of Maxima above Maxima Maxum 4, where are the results for them? This is one of many inconsistencies in this report, I'm not saying Amsoil is not good, I'm saying this report is crap and there are many better oils that were left out so Amsoil could sell more oil to people that believe everything they read with out question, and what in the name of god do I need oil sampling for, if I was running a full on race program maybe, or on aircraft engines that when they fail inflight you die, but for an ex500 please if there is a problem by the time you take the sample, send it to Amsoil and get the results it's blown up anyway. As I've said before this is America live like you want to live, but don't be fooled by Amsoil's crap
 

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MrSciTrek said:
Knightslugger said:
actually, the stuff for diesel engines really ain't that bad! it might not be rated to JASO-MA standards, but it does a wizz bang job at lubricating. i do suggest however buying the synthetic over the conventional stuff if you are going this route.
So you guys are saying that a high quality motor/gearbox oil for our bikes is:
15w-40 synthetic diesel engine oil (esp if it meets JASO-MA)?

For 3-season use would 10w-40 be better?
If it is JASO-MA certified, yeah sure. the viscosity you want is 10w40. if you're lucky enough to see 3 warm seasons i don't see anything wrong with a 15w40.

ART1989: You're right, they did leave out a lot of other oil brands. you shouldn't hold that against them though. what you should take away from that study is that given the oils presented, Amsoil came out on top followed closely by maxima. when it comes to sending in oil samples, they can't falsify an analysis. that's called fraud.
 

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Thak you Art,
I couldn't have said it better. I just resisted a comment because... "If you can't say somthing nice....."

FOG
 

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Knightslugger said:
MrSciTrek said:
Knightslugger said:
actually, the stuff for diesel engines really ain't that bad! it might not be rated to JASO-MA standards, but it does a wizz bang job at lubricating. i do suggest however buying the synthetic over the conventional stuff if you are going this route.
So you guys are saying that a high quality motor/gearbox oil for our bikes is:
15w-40 synthetic diesel engine oil (esp if it meets JASO-MA)?

For 3-season use would 10w-40 be better?
If it is JASO-MA certified, yeah sure. the viscosity you want is 10w40. if you're lucky enough to see 3 warm seasons i don't see anything wrong with a 15w40.

ART1989: You're right, they did leave out a lot of other oil brands. you shouldn't hold that against them though. what you should take away from that study is that given the oils presented, Amsoil came out on top followed closely by maxima. when it comes to sending in oil samples, they can't falsify an analysis. that's called fraud.
Your corrected they didn't falsify the results, they did worst they only tested against oils they knew they were better than! I mean come on if you test your fully syn oil against someone else's mineral oil or semi-syn and you don't win, is that going to be bad for business, you missed my point, which was they left oils not just other brands, but higher quality oils from within the brands tested that were and are better than amsoil and they did it on purpose, it my be legal, but it's still lying. They tested Maxima 3rd best oil and just beat it which was a semi-syn oil when they should have been testing Maxima's full syn oils, which Amsoil would have been clobbered by, and that's way they arent tested, I don't remember the details of the other brands, but more than 1 company's oil in this test was not their top of the line.
Amsoil has being pulling the same BS for as long as I can remember, fall for it if you want.
 
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