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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Honestly ive read it like 10 times and still dont get what im spose to do. I feel dumb :(

Dont bother copy and pasting vertical alignment wiki, yall need to learn how to give instructions like your teaching kids.... that wiki on vertical alignment reads like 80s stereo instructions lmfao sry FOG but it does ;)

Forks rocked, string thing done... chrome 16mm out the top of triple tree, all bolts torqued correctly. Now wtf am i doing for vertical alignment????? hahahaha
 

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Define alignment. Once you get both tires following the same path, there is only chain adjustment to deal with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Define alignment. Once you get both tires following the same path, there is only chain adjustment to deal with.
The processes of aligning the wheels on a vehicle. The chain adjusters/rear wheel alignment bolts move, and align the rear wheel, and chain at the same time.... they are one in the same.

Not according to the wiki
 

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Honestly ive read it like 10 times and still dont get what im spose to do. I feel dumb :(

Dont bother copy and pasting vertical alignment wiki, yall need to learn how to give instructions like your teaching kids.... that wiki on vertical alignment reads like 80s stereo instructions lmfao sry FOG but it does ;)

Forks rocked, string thing done... chrome 16mm out the top of triple tree, all bolts torqued correctly. Now wtf am i doing for vertical alignment????? hahahaha
Oh well teaching kids is easier as they have no preconceived ideas on what anything is. also trying to do so is frowned upon in some quarters. but seeing as how this is asked for (don't blame me later) here goes.

in the simplest terms. start by getting a oblong piece of paper. fold it down the middle longways. open slightly at the btm and stand it on a level surface (like a table) what you have there is a basic model of a motorcycle.
upright and stable. it does this because the edges sitting on the table are flat. even. and parallel.

now a motorcycle doesn't have two flat edges to stand on only two revolving wheels (as fog put's it Gyroscopes) these keep the bike upright while moving. but to do so they have to be running in the same plane. or the bigger one (rear) forces the front one (smaller so less power) off line.
to ensure this doesn't happen you need to test and adjust the alignment in every direction. linear, horizontally, and vertically because a gyroscope has interesting properties. while it is spinning it tries to keep itself stable.

if you turn it left it tilts to the right and visa versa. if you tip it to the left it turns to the right and visa versa.
incidentally it's what pulls the bike upright after turning a corner. or keeps the bars straight while moving forwards.

to ensure the wheels (gyroscopes) work together they have to be in line. this is set/checked by doing the string thing so the front wheel aligns perfectly with the back (the bigger and most powerful) and also rocking the forks to ensure the front wheel is not mis aligned in the forks or the forks twisted in the headstock. that done there is the horizontal plane this is pretty much pre-set by the manufacturer in the design so unless something has been changed not relevant.

the last thing (and the one you have problems with) is verticality remember if the gyroscope is tilted left it turns right and visa versa, well both wheels have to be vertical at the same time. or the bike tries to steer left or right while going straight ahead. or shakes the bars because the rear (bigger wheel/gyro) tries to alter the plane of the front one.
now unless the swingarm is bent or twisted the rear wheel will always be vertical so this is the one any readings are taken from.
to test or reset the wheel verticality you must first ensure the rear wheel is vertical. you can do this in many ways I prefer to put bike on centre stand then get the rear wheel vertical by placing a spirit level on the whole rear wheel and adjusting the bike level by adding bits of wood under the stand.
once it is perfect put the spirit level on the front wheel if it is correct this also should be perfectly vertical. if it's not either something is bent or the forks need adjusting in the trees.
if the wheel is leaning to the left shorten the left fork if it's leaning to the right shorten the right fork do this in small stages say 1/8th of an inch until the front wheel is also vertical then tighten up the fork bolts. recheck the alignment of the front forks by re doing the fork rocking then your done.
it also helps when fitting new tires that the wheels are balanced to suit the new tires but that's a lesson for another day.
 

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The processes of aligning the wheels on a vehicle. The chain adjusters/rear wheel alignment bolts move, and align the rear wheel, and chain at the same time.... they are one in the same.

Not according to the wiki
the WIKI is correct. two different things. while one adjustment does effect both. it can be the most frustrating chore for a newbie. get the chain tension correct the wheel is out of line.. reset the alignment the chain is too tight or too slack. doing the same thing over and over until both are correct. while the chain alignment takes care of itself along with wheel alignment proving all the correct spacers are in place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Oh well teaching kids is easier as they have no preconceived ideas on what anything is. also trying to do so is frowned upon in some quarters. but seeing as how this is asked for (don't blame me later) here goes.

in the simplest terms. start by getting a oblong piece of paper. fold it down the middle longways. open slightly at the btm and stand it on a level surface (like a table) what you have there is a basic model of a motorcycle.
upright and stable. it does this because the edges sitting on the table are flat. even. and parallel.

now a motorcycle doesn't have two flat edges to stand on only two revolving wheels (as fog put's it Gyroscopes) these keep the bike upright while moving. but to do so they have to be running in the same plane. or the bigger one (rear) forces the front one (smaller so less power) off line.
to ensure this doesn't happen you need to test and adjust the alignment in every direction. linear, horizontally, and vertically because a gyroscope has interesting properties. while it is spinning it tries to keep itself stable.

if you turn it left it tilts to the right and visa versa. if you tip it to the left it turns to the right and visa versa.
incidentally it's what pulls the bike upright after turning a corner. or keeps the bars straight while moving forwards.

to ensure the wheels (gyroscopes) work together they have to be in line. this is set/checked by doing the string thing so the front wheel aligns perfectly with the back (the bigger and most powerful) and also rocking the forks to ensure the front wheel is not mis aligned in the forks or the forks twisted in the headstock. that done there is the horizontal plane this is pretty much pre-set by the manufacturer in the design so unless something has been changed not relevant.

the last thing (and the one you have problems with) is verticality remember if the gyroscope is tilted left it turns right and visa versa, well both wheels have to be vertical at the same time. or the bike tries to steer left or right while going straight ahead. or shakes the bars because the rear (bigger wheel/gyro) tries to alter the plane of the front one.
now unless the swingarm is bent or twisted the rear wheel will always be vertical so this is the one any readings are taken from.
to test or reset the wheel verticality you must first ensure the rear wheel is vertical. you can do this in many ways I prefer to put bike on centre stand then get the rear wheel vertical by placing a spirit level on the whole rear wheel and adjusting the bike level by adding bits of wood under the stand.
once it is perfect put the spirit level on the front wheel if it is correct this also should be perfectly vertical. if it's not either something is bent or the forks need adjusting in the trees.
if the wheel is leaning to the left shorten the left fork if it's leaning to the right shorten the right fork do this in small stages say 1/8th of an inch until the front wheel is also vertical then tighten up the fork bolts. recheck the alignment of the front forks by re doing the fork rocking then your done.
it also helps when fitting new tires that the wheels are balanced to suit the new tires but that's a lesson for another day.
Awesome right up dude!!!! Thank you
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
the WIKI is correct. two different things. while one adjustment does effect both. it can be the most frustrating chore for a newbie. get the chain tension correct the wheel is out of line.. reset the alignment the chain is too tight or too slack. doing the same thing over and over until both are correct. while the chain alignment takes care of itself along with wheel alignment proving all the correct spacers are in place.
I see how someone could see it as 2 different parts but i didnt. Obviously if you change one you're going to affect the other.... it's the only part you can adjust back there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Oh well teaching kids is easier as they have no preconceived ideas on what anything is. also trying to do so is frowned upon in some quarters. but seeing as how this is asked for (don't blame me later) here goes.

in the simplest terms. start by getting a oblong piece of paper. fold it down the middle longways. open slightly at the btm and stand it on a level surface (like a table) what you have there is a basic model of a motorcycle.
upright and stable. it does this because the edges sitting on the table are flat. even. and parallel.

now a motorcycle doesn't have two flat edges to stand on only two revolving wheels (as fog put's it Gyroscopes) these keep the bike upright while moving. but to do so they have to be running in the same plane. or the bigger one (rear) forces the front one (smaller so less power) off line.
to ensure this doesn't happen you need to test and adjust the alignment in every direction. linear, horizontally, and vertically because a gyroscope has interesting properties. while it is spinning it tries to keep itself stable.

if you turn it left it tilts to the right and visa versa. if you tip it to the left it turns to the right and visa versa.
incidentally it's what pulls the bike upright after turning a corner. or keeps the bars straight while moving forwards.

to ensure the wheels (gyroscopes) work together they have to be in line. this is set/checked by doing the string thing so the front wheel aligns perfectly with the back (the bigger and most powerful) and also rocking the forks to ensure the front wheel is not mis aligned in the forks or the forks twisted in the headstock. that done there is the horizontal plane this is pretty much pre-set by the manufacturer in the design so unless something has been changed not relevant.

the last thing (and the one you have problems with) is verticality remember if the gyroscope is tilted left it turns right and visa versa, well both wheels have to be vertical at the same time. or the bike tries to steer left or right while going straight ahead. or shakes the bars because the rear (bigger wheel/gyro) tries to alter the plane of the front one.
now unless the swingarm is bent or twisted the rear wheel will always be vertical so this is the one any readings are taken from.
to test or reset the wheel verticality you must first ensure the rear wheel is vertical. you can do this in many ways I prefer to put bike on centre stand then get the rear wheel vertical by placing a spirit level on the whole rear wheel and adjusting the bike level by adding bits of wood under the stand.
once it is perfect put the spirit level on the front wheel if it is correct this also should be perfectly vertical. if it's not either something is bent or the forks need adjusting in the trees.
if the wheel is leaning to the left shorten the left fork if it's leaning to the right shorten the right fork do this in small stages say 1/8th of an inch until the front wheel is also vertical then tighten up the fork bolts. recheck the alignment of the front forks by re doing the fork rocking then your done.
it also helps when fitting new tires that the wheels are balanced to suit the new tires but that's a lesson for another day.
Im not completely stupid i did build the bike. Thank you hahahaha sometimes i need things spelled out for me. It was also 1am idk maybe 100 deg Saturday, mixed with 1am made me dumb hahahaha!!!! Just needed a better write up i couldnt imagine the other one. Thanks again ill give it a go! In 7 years never done it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Im not completely stupid hahahaha, just needed a better write up i couldnt imagine the other one
Oh well teaching kids is easier as they have no preconceived ideas on what anything is. also trying to do so is frowned upon in some quarters. but seeing as how this is asked for (don't blame me later) here goes.

in the simplest terms. start by getting a oblong piece of paper. fold it down the middle longways. open slightly at the btm and stand it on a level surface (like a table) what you have there is a basic model of a motorcycle.
upright and stable. it does this because the edges sitting on the table are flat. even. and parallel.

now a motorcycle doesn't have two flat edges to stand on only two revolving wheels (as fog put's it Gyroscopes) these keep the bike upright while moving. but to do so they have to be running in the same plane. or the bigger one (rear) forces the front one (smaller so less power) off line.
to ensure this doesn't happen you need to test and adjust the alignment in every direction. linear, horizontally, and vertically because a gyroscope has interesting properties. while it is spinning it tries to keep itself stable.

if you turn it left it tilts to the right and visa versa. if you tip it to the left it turns to the right and visa versa.
incidentally it's what pulls the bike upright after turning a corner. or keeps the bars straight while moving forwards.

to ensure the wheels (gyroscopes) work together they have to be in line. this is set/checked by doing the string thing so the front wheel aligns perfectly with the back (the bigger and most powerful) and also rocking the forks to ensure the front wheel is not mis aligned in the forks or the forks twisted in the headstock. that done there is the horizontal plane this is pretty much pre-set by the manufacturer in the design so unless something has been changed not relevant.

the last thing (and the one you have problems with) is verticality remember if the gyroscope is tilted left it turns right and visa versa, well both wheels have to be vertical at the same time. or the bike tries to steer left or right while going straight ahead. or shakes the bars because the rear (bigger wheel/gyro) tries to alter the plane of the front one.
now unless the swingarm is bent or twisted the rear wheel will always be vertical so this is the one any readings are taken from.
to test or reset the wheel verticality you must first ensure the rear wheel is vertical. you can do this in many ways I prefer to put bike on centre stand then get the rear wheel vertical by placing a spirit level on the whole rear wheel and adjusting the bike level by adding bits of wood under the stand.
once it is perfect put the spirit level on the front wheel if it is correct this also should be perfectly vertical. if it's not either something is bent or the forks need adjusting in the trees.
if the wheel is leaning to the left shorten the left fork if it's leaning to the right shorten the right fork do this in small stages say 1/8th of an inch until the front wheel is also vertical then tighten up the fork bolts. recheck the alignment of the front forks by re doing the fork rocking then your done.
it also helps when fitting new tires that the wheels are balanced to suit the new tires but that's a lesson for another day.
So how do you get the level in the correct position on a round surface? As you stated the rear is already set.... just laying it on the wheel wont tell me if its true on the wheel. Just if the level is true. IE if it was on a uneven surface the whole bike is off to the side. This would require a perfectly level place to test on center stand correct??? Thats a problem for me as my drive way angles down toward the street a bit. Not really sure what i can do here.
 

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Im not completely stupid i did build the bike. Thank you hahahaha sometimes i need things spelled out for me. It was also 1am idk maybe 100 deg Saturday, mixed with 1am made me dumb hahahaha!!!! Just needed a better write up i couldnt imagine the other one. Thanks again ill give it a go! In 7 years never done it.
not many people do or even think of vertical alignment as important. but on a lightweight bike capable of 100+mph important none the less. and while no-one assumes anybody else is stupid it is easy to not see the forest because all the trees are in the way. call it temporary blindness. it is also easy to understand how something works without understanding why it works.
the paper on the table and the front wheel used as a gyroscope was how it was explained to me 70 years ago when I (as kid) kept falling off my bike. while all that is elementary if you don't get it at that level how is more complicated going to be any easier. often forgot by those of us who understand most things about bikes.
 

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So how do you get the level in the correct position on a round surface? As you stated the rear is already set.... just laying it on the wheel wont tell me if its true on the wheel. Just if the level is true. IE if it was on a uneven surface the whole bike is off to the side. This would require a perfectly level place to test on center stand correct??? Thats a problem for me as my drive way angles down toward the street a bit. Not really sure what i can do here.
Ah still not quite got it. your not testing the round (tire) edge but the top to btm verticality from the side (like standing a coin on table) it doesn't matter if the bike is nose down or nose up, just that it is vertical side to side.
you can tell when it is as the rear wheel is vertical just put thin slivers of wood under the feet of the centre stand until it is.
when you have the rear wheel vertical (the bike is also) take the sprit level and place against the side of the front wheel. when that is also vertical you have your adjustment.

edit. couple of photo shots in coming.

Hood Automotive tire Tire Motor vehicle Road surface

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Bicycle tire Automotive lighting

Wheel Tire Motor vehicle Automotive lighting Automotive tire
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ah still not quite got it. your not testing the round (tire) edge but the top to btm verticality from the side (like standing a coin on table) it doesn't matter if the bike is nose down or nose up, just that it is vertical side to side.
you can tell when it is as the rear wheel is vertical just put thin slivers of wood under the feet of the centre stand until it is.
when you have the rear wheel vertical (the bike is also) take the sprit level and place against the side of the front wheel. when that is also vertical you have your adjustment.

edit. couple of photo shots in coming.
So put the level on the rim?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So put the level on the rim?
If i put the level on the wheel/rim and shim the center stand shes level as the back is already..... Then how do i check the front??? Put the level on the forks once its level in back?
 

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Undestanding what I wrote about how to do the vertical phase of properly straightening your bike require no more that 8th grade understanding of geometry simply using two plumb lines to establish the comonallaty (vertically) between the from and rear wheels.
Now setting the front to match the rear, you slip one of the fork tubes up or down to tilt the wheel parallel to the plumb line. Obviously you need to loosen some bolts to allow this .

If you can't understand this I can't help you, My friend P Kates runs a company called GMD computrack, which uses a transit and complicated geometry to produce the Magic Numbers, (Mumbo jumbo) they actually do get it right for about $300,



FOG
 
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If i put the level on the wheel/rim and shim the center stand shes level as the back is already..... Then how do i check the front??? Put the level on the forks once its level in back?
no the front wheel same as back. look at the edited photos last post. explains it all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Undestanding what I wrote about how to do the vertical phase of properly straightening your bike require no more that 8th grade understanding of geometry simply using two plumb lines to establish the comonallaty (vertically) between the from and rear wheels.
Now setting the front to match the rear, you slip one of the fork tubes up or down to tilt the wheel parallel to the plumb line. Obviously you need to loosen some bolts to allow this .

If you can't understand this I can't help you

FOG
Thanks FOG i do understand to a point. even though my 8th grade math skills are lacking... thanks for calling me out you old fart :) i admit never was strong in math....

Do i just use a pole stand or something, if using a plumb line? I was thinking just a pole over the bike with a 2x4 stand on each side, lines hanging next to bike from pole to center of rear and measure to the line to and bottom till the numbers match and its level to the string????..... then do the same to the front and move the tube up or down till its level with the strings.... correct?

I get the level way now...... which is better?
 

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I get the level way now...... which is better?
the plumb bob is the engineers way. once you have pissed about making a frame to stand beside the bike with the thing on the end to check it with. more accurate possibly.
the level is easy simple and can be done in 2mins after doing any work on the front. to check it's right. choice is yours but you still need the bike upright either way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
no the front wheel same as back. look at the edited photos last post. explains it all.
Ok got it now the problem is my drive way..... its not level (it how can i make sure my front tire is sitting level with the back tire....... im not sure if im explaining it well enough.
the plumb bob is the engineers way. once you have pissed about making a frame to stand beside the bike with the thing on the end to check it with. more accurate possibly.
the level is easy simple and can be done in 2mins after doing any work on the front. to check it's right. choice is yours but you still need the bike upright either way.

Thanks so much guys!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ok so i set up again......... string thing than vertical with a level. Now im noticing a big difference on my front...... it leans to the right. My tee is bent or something. The string thing almost touches the right side, and 3 inches away on left.

I checked the vertical on back got it even than stuck a magnate torpedo level on the rotor to see if that was level too it was.... same on front all said the same ( i suppose you could do a quick check this way.... granted your rotors are true)


So with this i need to move my right (sitting on) side tube down to move my front wheel to be even the gap on string thing and at the same time the vertical??????

pic below
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Automotive lighting Road surface
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Synthetic rubber Tread
 
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