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I really wish you guys would refrain from altering the alignment checking process . 2X 4s and levels are simply not accurate. there is no good surface to register them to.
Pleas stay with the string method the best way is to rig the string just off the wheel and measure to the rim from the strings until you get the string parallel to the wheel (rear) then measure from the string to the front and note the error.
I did this in my garage so I had lots of beams to hang plum lines from.
Not shim the stands to get the rear wheel plum. then measure from the from plum line to top and bottom of the front wheel. correct the from bu slipping the tube in the triple claps Remember to loosen the axel bolt too.
Once the wheel is square tighten all and re check.
Then move the rear in accordance with the string check. remember to re set the strings every time you move the wheel

This is the last time i'm going to re write this no levels ,no 2 x 4s
FOG
 
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Ok well my last psost had pics showing the left side was like 3in from the string while the other was touching. This was when the rear was adjusted to the 3rd hash mark. i did the string thing again complettly ignoring hash marks just to see if i could get the front center to the rear at all. and got the front wheel center to the back more or less..... now with the measurements i got the closest i could get was 10mm on rightside side (otherwise would touch the center stand and 16mm on the other). The problem is that my hash marks are now so off its concerning.

To reiterate to make back center to the front the back had to be adjusted so that the hash marks are on the 3rd one side and 4th the other making gaps 10mm and 16mm...... I spent an hour with the strings so i know its as close to center to the front as it can be(with out touching the center stand) Can you can see my problem???? im guessing either my triple tree or swing arm is bent. Am i correct????? screw the vert measurements as of now i have bigger peoblems. What should i do?
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Ok well my last psost had pics showing the left side was like 3in from the string while the other was touching. This was when the rear was adjusted to the 3rd hash mark. i did the string thing again complettly ignoring hash marks just to see if i could get the front center to the rear at all. and got the front wheel center to the back more or less..... now with the measurements i got the closest i could get was 10mm on rightside side (otherwise would touch the center stand and 16mm on the other). The problem is that my hash marks are now so off its concerning.

To reiterate to make back center to the front the back had to be adjusted so that the hash marks are on the 3rd one side and 4th the other making gaps 10mm and 16mm...... I spent an hour with the strings so i know its as close to center to the front as it can be(with out touching the center stand) Can you can see my problem???? im guessing either my triple tree or swing arm is bent. Am i correct????? screw the vert measurements as of now i have bigger peoblems. What should i do?

Ok well...... took for test run to see what that did and the head shake is worse than before, even tho the wheels are aligned per string thing (Which i figured would happen with the rear so out of wack) So im going back to hash mark settings. From what i gather my triple tree is bent to the right. There is no way to center the back wheel to front with out seriously putting the rear to an angle. Since the only issue is a wobble at 45 on with hands off with hash settings. ill take what i can get, and not throw a fit. If im wrong here someone chime in... thanks guys.
 

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Well you obviously have sever problems. If your front end is bent. Trying to align the rear to it is a mistake. As I said above get the front vertical first
Fog
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
This is basicly what i got with string thing on 3rd hash mark chain set..... wobble at 45mph hands off


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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Well you obviously have sever problems. If your front end is bent. Trying to align the rear to it is a mistake. As I said above get the front vertical first
Fog
I tried the vertical.... rear was fine..... front is ok but off center to rear and sliding the tube down to flush on one side leaving the other at 16mm above triple did nothing to change the gap of the strings or correct problem and seemed to put pressure on forks

This (picture) is the best i can get with out angling the rear wheel. Now i get there will be some differance to hash marks on either side with string thing, but 1 full mark seems off to me.... am i correct?

Bent swing arm, or bent triple my forks are strait... what do you think? All i know is that the front wheel sits off to the right when rear is basically center
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
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String thing even with rear this is what the front is doing.
 

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I don't think you can accurately do the String Thing with the string that close to the ground. That aside, the gap between the wheel and the forks look a lot closer on the brake disk side than on the speedometer gear side. It may just be the camera angle, but, are you sure the spacer on the brake disk side is in place?
The spacer shown in pics 3 & 4 in this thread.
Front Wheel R&R
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
The more i read on this the more it seems like my frame is bent. FOG said in another thread that if the front is more than 1/4th its bent.... Well ****.
I don't think you can accurately do the String Thing with the string that close to the ground. That aside, the gap between the wheel and the forks look a lot closer on the brake disk side than on the speedometer gear side. It may just be the camera angle, but, are you sure the spacer on the brake disk side is in place?
The spacer shown in pics 3 & 4 in this thread.
Front Wheel R&R

Thats as high/low as i can go with center stand..... Doesn't touch anything but tire... the fact its off is the point and the problem..... yes spacer is in.
 

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TBH Leroy I think the only option is to scrap what you have done and start again afresh with a more critical eye.
something is not right either in the methodology or in practice unless there are serious issues or wrong assembly.
time to get the measuring tape and string out.
back to basics ignore the swingarm marks for now (there never accurate) mine are way wrong if they were to be believed.
pull the plastic plugs off the swingarm bolt. and measure the distance from the centre of the bolt on the swingarm to the centre of the axle bolt, make sure they are exactly the same both sides adjust the wheel if required. nip up the axle bolt. then measure the distance from the front of the rear rim to the inside of the swingarm, (both sides) they should be equal.
if they are the rear wheel is centred in the swing arm. this is the point you re do the string thing wheel alignment.
get the sting as high as possible without touching anything other than the rear tire front and back. when I do mine the string is about 1foot off the ground.
make sure the string is just touching the outer edge of the rear tire. then measure the gap down the left side of the front wheel. making sure the gap is equal front and back of the front tire (it wasn't on your last set of photos).
then measure the other side. and take readings.
lastly measure the the distance from the inside of the fork leg to the rim (at the top of the front wheel) they should be the same (mine are 4cm) to ensure the front wheel is central in the forks.
if you can't get it somewhere near by now. it's a strip down to find what is bent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Im super afraid my crash 4 years back on fathersday did this, but it never showed signs of anything wrong before so i never checked.... rookie move, i know i should have checked 1st thing after the crash(but since it didnt really feel off i didnt)

Ill reset everything to like i reintalled it, check parts to diagrams (im sure i have every part and assembled correctly, but ill check to be safe) confirm everything is there. Redo string thing, vertical, and report back.

Me thinks i might be screwed though.

Thanks again for hanging in there, and sorry these posts are so long. I try to give as much info as i can, so you can better get where im at, and what ive done. ;)
 

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It shows the benefit of a free thing like the String Thing. too bad you had to ride a bent bike for so long.

FOG
 
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Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
Ok well I reset everything on front, and rear..... all the parts are there, and assembled correctly. I set the rear at the 3rd hash mark to start. Rocked the forks, and everything is tight, but not torqued. No rocking, tubes spin in-place, 16mm of tube out of the top of the triple tree. Set the vertical plumb line, and level..... rear is solid, move to front, and the front wheel is off vertically. In order to correct i had to move wheel/handle bars to the right a little.... bike now level..... on to string thing.....

Bike level, rear on 3rd hash marks, string thing run to the front. First thing i notice.... The wheel isn't parallel to the strings, and touches on the right side. Touching the right front eged of front tire, and 1/8 off the rear edge, and around 2 inchs on left. I adjusted the rear so the strings matched the front. The rear now set at the 4th has mark on the right, 3rd on the left making the string thing gap more center on the front tire about 1 inch each side, but the wheel is still not parallel to string. If i move the wheel to make parallel to the string thing i will throw off vertical adjustment. Thus i conclue i have a problem.


Long stroy short it will not align..... Im not sure if i explained this correctly...


Can the rear be off that much, or is my frame, triple tree, or swing arm bent??

What should i check 1st if it is infact bent someplace.

Picture is front, and rear vertically aligned, rear on 3rd hash mark setting before adjustments.

This was giving me head shake at 45-50mph hands off not above, or below... hands on was fine.
 

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Ok well I reset everything on front, and rear..... all the parts are there, and assembled correctly. I set the rear at the 3rd hash mark to start.
don't know what to say really. except failed at the first fence.

back to basics ignore the swingarm marks for now (there never accurate) mine are way wrong if they were to be believed.
pull the plastic plugs off the swingarm bolt. and measure the distance from the centre of the bolt on the swingarm to the centre of the axle bolt, make sure they are exactly the same both sides adjust the wheel if required. nip up the axle bolt. then measure the distance from the front of the rear rim to the inside of the swingarm, (both sides) they should be equal.
if they are the rear wheel is centred in the swing arm. this is the point you re do the string thing wheel alignment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
don't know what to say really. except failed at the first fence.
I don't know what you mean by that but I haven't checked the swing arm yet I was making sure everything else was the same now I can check the swing arm and if that measurement is the same that I don't have to do anything else. If the swing arm measurement is off then I can recheck the vertical and string thing. Let me do that real quick.
 

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I don't know what you mean by that but I haven't checked the swing arm yet
EXACTLY. like putting the cart before the horse. the back has to be set FIRST.

since doing the last post I have been out to the garage to check both my bikes, both of them are spot on with wheel alignment (as you would expect) swingarm marks as follows.
GEN 1 swingarm marks (hash marks) 3.5 left side 4.0 right side. (or half a mark out)
GEN 2 swingarm marks (hash marks) 4.25 left side 3.5 right side (or 3/4 of a mark out)
this small amount would be huge by the time the string reaches the front of the front wheel. if they were set at #3 or #4 both sides.
to understand how the string thing works you have to understand why the string thing works (mentioned in earlier post) the string only tells you if the front wheel is in line with the back one. by providing two parallel lines on the same plane as the back wheel out to the front. if the back wheel is cocked over either left or right even by a small amount by the time those lines reach the front they are way off the front wheel. while doing the gen 1 first time I had exactly the same issue you are having the front wheel had a gap of 1cm at the left and 4cm at the right. does it mean something was bent NO it meant the back wheel was NOT pointing directly forwards.

by pulling the rear wheel left (with the adjuster screw) by the half a mark (as is it now) it made the rear wheel point further left. then by resetting the strings to the new position of the rear wheel it made the gap at the front wheel 2cm each side which is perfect for that bike. I DO NOT believe you have the back wheel pointing perfectly towards the front. it needs moving by the adjusters.

I don't know how much clearer I can be. if you rigidly stick to the hash marks you may never get the front to align with the back. you need to ignore those marks once you have done the first set up and move the wheel to alter the angle of the rear wheel wherever that is. remember the two gyroscopes have to be in line one in front of the other or there is no point setting them up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
Leroy. watch this video it explains what I mean a lot better than I could.
How To Align Motorcycle Wheel w/o Pointing Front Wheel Straight (String Method) - YouTube
I get how the string thing works....... i dont know if you read my post correctly.... you think im doing it wrong but im teying to tell you im getting odd numbers here that match both times ive done it. The only way to make true with front is to cock the rear wheel to 3rd and 4th hash marks. FoG said dont do this. If the rear measurements say swing arm is fine the front is off.

if you read my post i said i have the hash marks at 3 on one side 4 on the other, and with that setting thats as close to strait as i can make the rear to the front.

The pictures in last are with the settings at hash mark 3 on both sides to start .... to show how off the front wheel is at the 3rd hash marks.

To make string thing in line with front i have to adjust to rear to 3rd and 4th hash marks to make string gap at the front almost even at 1 inch

My question is can the swing arm be off that much (1 full mark)

With doing the 3rd and 4th hash marks it changes swing arm messrements to 20" on the 3 side and 20.5" on the 4 side. 1.5 to rim and 1 3/8 to rim.

All this tells me is that cocking the rear is the only way to get inline with the front and that seems off to me.

Your post your saying this is ok? Basically the same as your gen 2 above.


So again...... both sides on 3rd hash marks gives me 20inch on swing arm.... 1.5 from swing to rim one side 1.5 on the other..... gives me a string thing of the picture above of touching at front one side and 2 inches on the other.

Set rear to 3rd and 4th hash marks is the only way to get rear inline with front. Making messurement on swing arm 20" blot to bolt amd 20.5" bolt to bolt, and 1 3/8 to rim and 1.75 to rim......

This pic below is on 3rd and 4th hash marks as you can see its close to even but when i make front wheel parallel to strings it changes the vertical alinment on front. Level is for reference as it matches plumb line. If i adjust vertical the wheel sits in the strings crocked.

Not sure hoe else i can explain it.
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yes. it doesn't matter if the marks are off there not accurate anyway. just a guide.
it can take several attempts to get the wheels perfectly in line while at the same time having the chain at the right tension.
once I have it set and the chain correctly set. I mark the swingarm and the adjusting bracket with a punch mark. then if I have to alter the chain adjustment or remove the rear wheel sometime later it can go back exactly as it was.
if I have to make big changes I redo the alignment and make new punch marks.
 
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