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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
yes. it doesn't matter if the marks are off there not accurate anyway. just a guide.
it can take several attempts to get the wheels perfectly in line while at the same time having the chain at the right tension.
once I have it set and the chain correctly set. I mark the swingarm and the adjusting bracket with a punch mark. then if I have to alter the chain adjustment or remove the rear wheel sometime later it can go back exactly as it was.
if I have to make big changes I redo the alignment and make new punch marks.
Seems odd to me...... it seems im not aligning the bike so much as force aligning it. Im asentually dog tailing my bike. To me if it was true the rear wouldn't need changed to meet the front and if it does your front is off.

Now you saying there is tolerance and change the back to be inlime with the front... i get that and if what ive done is in the line of said tolerance ok. It just seems odd that they would make a bike this way.
 

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not really it's a Kawasaki you know. o_Oo_O ok that's a joke. but think about it the bikes not new none of them are so there must some wear and play in all the components that make up the steering angle front to back.
the axle. the bolt the spacers the bearings. the adjuster, bolts. rings. nuts. even the end caps of the swing arm. all can alter the position of the wheel relative to the swing arm marks. and then there is how the marks are made. I believe they are stamped on the swingarm legs before they are welded together. take all that into consideration how can you trust some pre-made marks. you can't when the only important factor is the alignment of the rear wheel to the front so it runs straight and true while moving.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 · (Edited)
not really it's a Kawasaki you know. o_Oo_O ok that's a joke. but think about it the bikes not new none of them are so there must some wear and play in all the components that make up the steering angle front to back.
the axle. the bolt the spacers the bearings. the adjuster, bolts. rings. nuts. even the end caps of the swing arm. all can alter the position of the wheel relative to the swing arm marks. and then there is how the marks are made. I believe they are stamped on the swingarm legs before they are welded together. take all that into consideration how can you trust some pre-made marks. you can't when the only important factor is the alignment of the rear wheel to the front so it runs straight and true while moving.
Sorry this is long but please read.


That all makes sense, the tolerances, and the whole objective/process.... except how can the swing arm measurements from bolt to axle ever be the same if your changing it with adjusters to align it to front. Im getting mixed info here.

A few overlapping things that confuse me.

1st...... Ive seen multiple times here, and eles were that the measurement from axle to swing arm bolt must be the same... also for the chain, and sprockets to be in-line......( to me that says in-line with frame too) So with this, the rear wheel is set to swing arm, and frame as centered.. in a perfect world would also mean its pointed foward perfectly. Not so much. Ok.... as the video shows, parallel the front wheel to the strings running from back, and adjust the rear till the front gap is the same on each side. Now the rear wheel is no longer set to swing arm, and off center, but is in line with front wheel.
You cant have it both ways.... you cant center rear wheel on the swing arm, then adjust it, and keep the same measurements unless your bike is 100% true.

That said aren't you basically making the bike point off center, but ride in a straight line... is this what your telling me????

With all of that...... ignoring the hash marks. Ignoring the swing arm My rear wheel/axle is now sitting in the swing arm crooked (for referance) around 3rd and 4th hashmarks..... 20" bolt to axle on one side 20.5" on the other. This is the only way to get aligned with front. If this is ok great im done, but it seems off to me.


Vertical alignment .... Now that the rear is vertical, and in-line with front.... the vertical is off on the front, and its around 1/4th. Tube trick wont fix it, and as per string thing this means my frame is bent.

I noticed that if i move the front wheel to the side it will effect the vertical and be inline with plumb line but now sits off(not parallel) on strings(angled). To make parrele again i would have to adjust or make rear more crooked in swing arm. Now i can do this but it would seem to make my bike dog tail and not point forward

I think my frame is bent, which is what ive been trying to say this whole time. Am i wrong? Thats all i got i cant explain it anybetter than this.
 

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forget all that marks crap and measuring the second paragraph of my instructions( repeated here)explains it all

Now to the MC both of these gyros are bolted to the same frame so both must be pointed the same way or they will fight each other for control of the frame.
The stronger one wins in the absence of other forces.

the only thing that matters is you must get both wheels traveling along the same line.

FOG
 
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without sounding pedantic or visionary all I can say is this .. is it possible your frame, swingarm, forks, headstock, trees, or anything else is bent of course it is. IDK I can't see it from 5000 miles away.
it's also possible mine is also (bent) one bike over 30yo the other over 20. whether all the marks, measurements. and alignment would be perfect on a new bike never ridden. I cannot say. I have never had one to check.

all you can do is work with what you got. providing the wheels are aligned in the same plane, both wheels are vertical when the bike is vertical and the rear chain is in line on the sprockets and correctly adjusted it is the best you can do.

whatever marks or measurements there are can be ignored to a lesser extent.
I have re- read Fog's string thing alignment. and also the instructions in the Haynes manual and neither mention anything about marks or measurements. so cannot be that important.

I mentioned them as this is the way I initially set up my bike as a guide to get things in the right ball park after that the marks and measurements are ignored.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
forget all that marks crap and measuring the second paragraph of my instructions( repeated here)explains it all

Now to the MC both of these gyros are bolted to the same frame so both must be pointed the same way or they will fight each other for control of the frame.
The stronger one wins in the absence of other forces.

the only thing that matters is you must get both wheels traveling along the same line.

FOG
Fair enough
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Thanks again for taking the time helpping me, and helpping me understand how, and why!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 · (Edited)
So i finished, i got to 18mm each side
of the front wheel from rim. Room mate double checked. Sadly it cant do a vertical as its off at least 1/4 and as said this means my frame is tweeked. It is what it is, she does seem more nimble wheels in-line tho. The chain does seem to be a small bit off center, but the sprocket isnt rubbing as far as i can tell.... no sounds on test ride. as you said As long as I can get everything more or less in line I should be OK.

I still have a bit of a head shake at 45 only hands off would the vertical off cause head shake?

Thanks again!!!
 

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How bad was your crash? I would pull the forks and roll the stanchions on a surface plate. You may have tweaked fork tubes, which is an easy fix for a hundred or so used. Frames are most easily bent when the forks are wrapped back against the engine from frontal impact, or the bike is T-boned by a car.

Head shake can be caused by low front tire, cupped or worn tread - or loose steering head bearings. Got something like a Haynes manual? It can really help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
How bad was your crash? I would pull the forks and roll the stanchions on a surface plate. You may have tweaked fork tubes, which is an easy fix for a hundred or so used. Frames are most easily bent when the forks are wrapped back against the engine from frontal impact, or the bike is T-boned by a car.

Head shake can be caused by low front tire, cupped or worn tread - or loose steering head bearings. Got something like a Haynes manual? It can really help.

I checked tubes in forks. I twisted them no binding and no rocking. Torqued all the bolts down to speck, new ish head and wheel bearings. The only thing I can see that's off is the vertical on the front. The only other thing I can think is uneven/bad or out of balance tires.

Bad enough, hard to explain how it happened. Lady pulled out infront of me, i hit all the levers, and brakes, the bike went side ways, and hit her rear end. When we hit it thew us both (i held on) over the rear of the car, when we hit the ground it was hard enough to sheer off footpeg, and bend exhaust pipe broke front faring, and slid 10 feet. Rode home the block or so replaced broken parts but she never really felt off to me so i never check (i know rookie move)

I can honestly live with the headshake it's not that bad I was just curious what else it could be at this point but with my frame being bent like I suspect I don't think there's much I can do.
 

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Got wrenches? Frames w/paper are do-able. Check a few bike dismantlers. There's one on eBay (no title though) for $50 starting bid w/$75 shipping. Cheaper than straightening them. Unless you know someone with frame jigs.
 
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