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Discussion Starter #41
Amazon bashing part 3

This is my last stab at Amazon, at least until they do something else I don't like in the future >:) .

Prelude to set the mood:
I used to always get my oil from MC dealers, cycle gear etc. Slowly every one stopped selling it :surprise:. Then I found out I could order it direct from Spectro. That worked out well for a while. Then one time they sent me someone else's oil. Contacted them, and no problem (they're return policy much better than, well you know who). They send my order a few days later, and with it a prepaid shipping sticker to put on the wrong order to ship back to them. But the next time I try to order from them they're out of the shipping business :surprise:. But they put a few links on they're web site to vendors that either ship or sell it. So now it's always via shipping only through a third party.


Now the last time I ordered my oil (Spectro 4 10w40 non-synthetic , was through Amazon. Ordered 6 liters, I usually get 9 or 12 but I believe 6 was all that was available. May have been 7 or 8 available, but my number needs to be divisible by 3, right :wink2: . Now they tell me the delivery date is a month away :surprise: . This is not a problem, this is why I order my MC parts and supplies well in advanced, the month I can handle.

Now it's about 2 days away from the delivery date and here comes an email from Amazon. Paraphrasing: There's been a problem with your order. It is going to take another month before your order can be delivered. You will have to click on this button if you still wish to receive this order. So I'm like :surprise:. Bear in mind they never said what the problem was. At this point I'm about 7-10 days from a scheduled oil change. I hit they're button so I know I have at least that oil coming. But now I'm in a bit of a pickle. My options are:
Stop riding for a few weeks until my oil arrives. Well that's not really an option, is it.
Just get different oil. Don't really want to go there either.
Go ahead and ride past oil change interval. Don't like the idea, but this may have to happen.
Check to see if I can get the oil quicker from another source. I'm giving this a shot.

I find another oil source. Someone I have never heard of, but I think probably a lot of members here have. I'm just going to keep they're name anonymous as they're not a vendor on this site and are competition to some who are. I will just pick a random name and call them "Bob" >:). Bob has the goods and claims orders are usually delivered in 1-3 days. I'm thinking nice :grin2:. I order 3 liters to stay on line with the up coming oil change. Bob never gives a specific delivery date.

Now the next day (Wednesday) Amazon sends anther email. Stating now my order will arrive in 2 days on Friday. Everyone knows that Amazon are hackers, they have a different name for it when they do it, but it is hacking none the less. They know I just placed an order with Bob. Now they're getting they're butt in gear, maybe. Now I'm pretty excited. If Bob fails me, I now have Amazon back up. But best of all, now we have a full fledged race going. I'm rooting for Bob all the way. Thursday comes and no oil from Bob. It's coming down to the wire, Bob has to get here the next day on Friday, and before Amazon to win. Actually was hoping Amazon would be delayed a day or 2, to let Bob win. But Amazon has never been late on a delivery, so I do give them credit for that. The bad part is, if both orders come in on Friday and I'm not home, I'll never know who won. As luck would have it, I make it home before any orders come in. It's starting to get to early evening and here comes a delivery truck. I'm thinking as late as it is, there will probably not be a second truck that day, and this one is probably going to be from Amazon :frown2:. I go out to retrieve, and low and behold both orders came on the same delivery. I'm fully convinced Amazon just piggy backed off Bob to get a reduced shipping charge. And to top it off, I now see what the "problem" is that Amazon didn't want to mention. The whole bottom of their box was soaked in oil :surprise:. So the race is technically a tie, but Bob wins by getting them there with no leaks :grin2:.
 

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A burglar broke into my house and replaced everything with an exact duplicate. I couldn't believe it, so I called my friend and told him. "Do I know you?" he asked...
 

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Burglar? Can you prove it was a burglar? Maybe it was YOU! :wink2:
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Life is an illusion - until the IRA calls.
IRA or IRS?

And are you even the real po18guy? That does not look like the official po18guy avatar. :grin2:
 

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....

And are you even the real po18guy? That does not look like the official po18guy avatar. :grin2:
Yeah, it's his new John Deere with a custom red paint job.
 
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Discussion Starter #48
@cyoder4400 If your still out there, Is it possible to get some pictures.
The box
The package that the master link came in
The out side of the chain showing all markings … "RK" "Japan" Etc.
If your up to cracking into a female link, that would be great also. But anything would be welcome.
 

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I don't think there's any "fake chains" out there. I just ordered a new RK motorcycle chain for my bike from eBay and it looks just fine!!!








>:) >:) >:)
 

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Discussion Starter #50
^ I don't know, having 2 master links looks awfully suspicious to me.

In an effort to find information directly from the horses mouth. I ran across this that I think has relevance.
http://global.rk-japan.co.jp/products/technical-report/laser-marking/
A couple of things I find interesting here is:
I will need to check out some older chains, and even the one now on my bike. But I don't recall even ever seeing the new way to mark the chains. And they're saying on this page that they have been doing it for 7 years, plus I'm not sure how old the page it's self is.

And on another note, which has no relevance what so ever on this thread is: This seems like extreme over kill any way as far as quality. I mean the last thing I would worry about is a plate failure due to the stamp method. :surprise:
 

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Discussion Starter #52
In an effort to find information directly from the horses mouth. I ran across this that I think has relevance.
http://global.rk-japan.co.jp/products/technical-report/laser-marking/
A couple of things I find interesting here is:
I will need to check out some older chains, and even the one now on my bike. But I don't recall even ever seeing the new way to mark the chains. And they're saying on this page that they have been doing it for 7 years, plus I'm not sure how old the page it's self is.

And on another note, which has no relevance what so ever on this thread is: This seems like extreme over kill any way as far as quality. I mean the last thing I would worry about is a plate failure due to the stamp method. :surprise:
Along with the above link I have found this one.
https://www.motorcyclegear.com/info_pages/rk_chain_technical_info.html
The problem with this one is, it is not from RK corp. I'm trying to find something like this, but an official one from RK. For the time being I will assume this to be accurate. Unless someone tells me it is not, or that it may not be accurate. I have seen some diagrams similar to these in the past, but looking a little different. Can't say as to what the validity in them would be, or who even drew them up. Possibly they are both accurate anyway, only difference being where the cross cut view was made.
As to the ones above, they're leading me on a train of thought that I hadn't even considered until now. So they may be key.
 

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good spot @bpe true the chain in question isn't RK but the technology is probably the same. one thing is obvious from the text however the integrity of the lubrication of the inner core is dependant on the seals holding that lubrication in place for the life of the chain.

I would assume therefore that should it fail early it would be nigh on impossible to replace the lubricant in the core by merely oiling the chain. because if it's designed to keep the lube from running out it wont let any back in. interesting I think. thanks for that.
 

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I want to share an image of a pair of cut offs from 2 different chains I used. Both are RK. Both are gold nitrided. However, look closely at the rollers.



You'll note that there is no seam in them. If you are seeing a seam on the rollers, I'm not certain you have a genuine RK chain:



Like I wrote initially, these are cut offs. The lengths of chain left over after I cut a chain to length.



They've been lying around my garage for a little while so they're not all clean and pretty but I wanted to illustrate the point about the rollers and how they're constructed.



If you see a seam in the middle of a roller, and it isn't completely sealed over no amount of o-rings are gonna matter as all the grease will work its way out past the seam.....once that happens, wear on the pins is accelerated and the chain "stretches" accordingly.



That means more frequent than normal adjustments and early failure (no adjustment left to maintain tension)
 

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Discussion Starter #55
You'll note that there is no seam in them. If you are seeing a seam on the rollers, I'm not certain you have a genuine RK chain
This is good info. Just going off memory I don't recall seeing rollers with seams. I will be checking those out. If one is found I would consider it smoking gun evidence.


On another note:
The above link is showing a diagram of a genuine RK link (at least supposedly). It's just not from RK corp. Like I would like to have. Here is what has kind of thrown me for a loop. Before I had ever known anything about MC chains, I just assumed they were no different than a bicycle chain, only bigger. Once I was aware of the O-rings, I just figured that was the only difference. Then some years back I saw a diagram of the same type as above (think it may have been in a video) showing something much more complex being added to the mix. I have now come to the conclusion that I just must have misinterpreted it. So as it is now, MC chains are basically the same as bicycle chains. The only relevance to this being, I don't think it is going to be as easy as I was thinking to prove anything by cutting inside the roller. Although I should still do it just to be sure.

I'm leaning towards improper O-rings being key at this point. Problem with that being, if I find that it could be argued a genuine chain, just miss packaged.

@yorkie I believe when using a quality chain lube on X-ring or Z-ring (and now I see they have developed U-rings) chains, the lube will penetrate fine past the rings and then thicken up to stay where it is supposed to. At least for the proper lube interval time. Using regular oil for lubing is more for regular O-rings (or non O-rings), although chain lube would still be better for those applications also.
 

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Along with the above link I have found this one.
https://www.motorcyclegear.com/info_pages/rk_chain_technical_info.html
The problem with this one is, it is not from RK corp. I'm trying to find something like this, but an official one from RK. For the time being I will assume this to be accurate. Unless someone tells me it is not, or that it may not be accurate. I have seen some diagrams similar to these in the past, but looking a little different. Can't say as to what the validity in them would be, or who even drew them up. Possibly they are both accurate anyway, only difference being where the cross cut view was made.
As to the ones above, they're leading me on a train of thought that I hadn't even considered until now. So they may be key.
I followed the link above, and read the info on how RK now laser etches their brand name on the side plates. As late as it was, I couldn't help myself, and went down to the garage to inspect my 'new in the box' RK chain I got from a Amazon a few weeks back. It does appear to have the newer markings (can't tell if they are laser etched), and not the engraving/stamping method. Now, no guarantee it's not a copy and the RK branding is actually some ink.... :grin2:
 

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Previous posts all valid, well and fine....but remain devoid of undeniable proof of fake RK chain being in a EX members possession.
 

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Discussion Starter #58 (Edited)
Now, no guarantee it's not a copy and the RK branding is actually some ink....
I know all I can remember seeing is the old stamp method, but that doesn't mean I don't have the etched ones. I have to get out the ole kerosene and start in on probably 2 hours of cleaning before I can even see my old chains. :surprise:

remain devoid of undeniable proof of fake RK chain being in a EX members possession.
No one is claiming undeniable proof yet. Key word there is yet :grin2:. May not never be able to find a smoking gun. :wink2:. Enough circumstantial evidence may raise some eyebrows though.
 
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