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Downshifting Problem - POSSIBLE SOLUTION

6149 Views 11 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  bpe
3
I've since sold my ninja, but before I did, I wanted to solve the downshifting problem I mentioned in this post awhile back: http://www.ex-500.com/archive/index.php/t-45232.html

I listened to everyone's advice and tried to get the shift lever to be exactly 90 degrees so that the shift throw would be equal for upshifts and downshifts. This didn't help, and I still had the same problem. I tried changing oil too, to no avail. I started looking at the parts diagrams to find out if it could be something internal here: http://www.kawasakipartshouse.com/oemparts/a/kaw/500b2754f8700223e4791a77/gear-change-mechanism

The feeling of pushing the lever down was like you're turning anything through its detents, and you feel a slight resistance, then nothing once it passes over. The problem was intermittent. From this, and looking at the diagrams, I had a hunch that spring #92801 could be the problem since its responsibility is to keep the change lever pawl firmly pressed against the shift drum crown. Thanks to Urbane's help and his garage, we were able to pull the engine to get the gear change mechanism cover off and dive in. (Don't mind the stator off and flywheel gone, I was just replacing the start clutch springs)



After pulling the suspect spring off, I compared it to the new one.. You can see that one end of the old spring is stretched maybe 2mm past the new one on one side only.


I replaced that spring, put the bike back together, and now the problem is gone! Downshifts perfectly! I got really used to dealing with it, and never actually got around to fixing it until I sold it.
We tried to get to the spring without removing the engine, but we couldn't get one bolt out since the frame was in the way.. I'm sure it could be done with some clever combination of wrenches or universal joints. Either way, removing the engine from the bike is easy overall.

Hopefully this helps someone who may have the same problem. Ask me any questions if you have some. I have a few more pictures of the mechanism if people are interested.
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Good deal.

O_E_M
Good job, this is what this forum is supposed to do. Find and deseminate solutions

Pat on the head to meadeball

Fog
^+1
Sounds like you may have had the same issue as me. I didn't replace the spring. I ground down parts of the pawl assembly so it rose up further. Perfect shifting ever since.
Sounds like you may have had the same issue as me. I didn't replace the spring. I ground down parts of the pawl assembly so it rose up further. Perfect shifting ever since.
That's a good idea too. I'd be worried that I would possibly grind it too far, making the pawl just get stuck on the crown. I should have probably replaced the pawl while I was in there, but there was no noticeable wear anyways.
Interesting, I wonder if that spring does the same job it does on the Ninja 250?

In the Ninja 250 some owners have changed spring #92144 shown below, to a heavier/stiffer one from another Kawasaki bike, I did the research on this and did a, write-up as well over @.Ninjette.org

Possible alternative for Factory Pro Blue Magic Shift Spring



So I wonder if Kawasaki offers the same spring in a stiffer range from another model?

Another question is will this help prevent 2nd gear problems that 1st Gen has?
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after a quick search it seems that the spring it's a popular one, unlike the spring for the 250, but I'm not giving up, more research is needed.

This Kawasaki 92081-1785 SPRING,CHANGE LEVER is used on these models and components:

1985 EN450-A1 454 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1986 EN450-A2 454 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1987 EN450-A3 454 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1987 EX500-A1 EX500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1988 EN450-A4 454 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1988 EX500-A2 EX500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1989 EN450-A5 454 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1989 EX500-A3 EX500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1990 EN450-A6 454 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1990 EN500-A1 Vulcan 500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1990 EX500-A4 EX500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1991 EN500-A2 Vulcan 500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1991 EX500-A5 EX500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1992 EN500-A3 Vulcan 500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1992 EX500-A6 EX500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1993 EN500-A4 Vulcan 500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1993 EX500-A7 EX500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1994 EN500-A5 Vulcan 500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1994 EX500-D1 Ninja 500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1995 EN500-A6 Vulcan 500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1995 EX500-D2 Ninja 500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1996 EN500-A7 Vulcan 500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1996 EN500-C1 Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1996 EX500-D3 Ninja 500 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1997 EN500-C2 Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1997 EX500-D4 Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1998 EN500-C3 Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1998 EX500-D5 Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1999 EN500-C4 Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1999 ER500-A3 ER5 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1999 EX500-D6 Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2000 EN500-C5 Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2000 ER500-A4 ER5 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2000 EX500-D7 Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2001 EN500-C6 Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2001 ER500-C1 ER5 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2001 EX500-D8 Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2002 EN500-C7 Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2002 ER500-C2 ER5 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2002 EX500-D9 Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2003 EN500-C8 Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2003 EX500-D10 Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2004 EN500-C9 Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2004 EX500-D11 Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2005 EN500-C10 Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2005 EX500-D12 Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2006 EN500C6F Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2006 EX500D6F Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2007 EN500C7F Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2007 EX500D7F Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2008 EN500C8F Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2008 EX500D8F Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2009 EN500C9F Vulcan 500 LTD GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2009 EX500D9F Ninja 500R GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
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The 500's gear change/drum mechanisms are a bit different, maybe just to fit into a different frame. Main thing I see is that the shift drums have different ends (crowns) to them, meaning everything else to turn that drum will be different.
http://www.kawasakipartshouse.com/o...8700223e4791a76/gear-change-drum-shift-fork-s
Find and deseminate solutions
I'm personally not interested in any solutions for my bike that require desemination.


Looks like this spring is only ~$5 from the online sellers (or a couple bucks more retail). This might be a good "while you're in there" fix if you're doing anything else in that area or have to pull the engine. If you're the Boy Scout type, it might even be worth adding the spring to your next order just to have on hand, if your bike is getting up there in miles or seems to have any shifting issues.
5
So, I am very grateful for the discovery made by user 鈥渕eadeball鈥 , I doubt I would have solved this problem without a pathfinder. His original post here.
Downshifting Problem - POSSIBLE SOLUTION
Here are my 50 cents on the downshift problem 鈥 even though this is an old thread.
When I bought my GPZ, EX500D2, 1995, it had done just over 70,000 km or 43,500 miles. Almost immediately I noticed that it sometimes took several tries to downshift from 6th to 5th gear. The gear lever would move/spring down, but there was no engaging 鈥渒lonk鈥.
Very optimistic, I thought the operation would last one or two cups of coffee, with the engine in the frame. I was wrong, the engine had to come out 鈽, so it turned out to be a twenty cup job.
I changed the spring with partno.. 92081-1785 SPRING,CHANGE LEVER.
Since the spring in my bike was pretty much identical with the new spring I didn鈥檛 want to assemble the whole bike just to find the problem still there.
So I did as user 鈥渓azy cackle鈥 and filed both the oblong slits in the pawl about 1,5mm deeper. After the filing it seams the pawl engaged fully, but it was still hard to tell if it would works as the shift mechanisn is quite 鈥渟tiff鈥 when the engine is not running.
One last thing I noticed, was that the pawl had some burrs and a little deformation from when it was punched out, meaning that the flat side was sliding with noticable friction. I flattened the burrs on the pawl with an oilstone.
Many cups of coffee later the whole bike was assembled and ready for a test ride 鈥 and it worked. I have ridden about 250km since the operation and have not had one single downshift malfunction. Every up and downshift engages fully - very satisfying.
Cheers
Kedde_DK
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Bumper Automotive exterior Gas Tints and shades Paint
Automotive tire Wood Bumper Gas Tool
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Hood Automotive design Automotive engine gasket
Machine tool Gas Machine Engineering Metal
Tire Wheel Motor vehicle Automotive tire Vehicle
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Nice work!
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