[Guest]

So what would it take to run E85 in our bikes. I know it is more corrosive, so would I need to replace all of my fuel lines with stronger hoses?

 

[MrSciTrek]

Googled & found:

at: http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0ca4b0
"This bulletin board is intended for fleet managers to discuss topics related to using E85 as a fuel and installing E85 infrastructure on site. E85 is designated for use in flexible fuel vehicles only and there are currently no conversion kits available that will allow a conventional vehicle to be retrofitted to run on E85.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/progs/tvwb/tvwb.cgi

There is only one major additional part that is included on an FFV, the fuel sensor that detects the ethanol/gasoline ratio. A number of other parts on the FFV’s fuel delivery system are modified so that they are ethanol compatible. The fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, computer system, anti-siphon device, and dashboard gauges have been modified slightly. Alcohols are corrosive. Therefore, any part that comes in contact with the fuel has been upgraded to be tolerant to alcohol. Normally, these parts include a stainless steel fuel tank and Teflon lined fuel hoses."
http://www.iowacorn.org/ethanol/ethanol_5a.html


Other:
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id26.html
http://www.in.gov/energy/faq/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines

 

[MrSciTrek]

Don't know ??? A.) But why would you want to use ethanol ? B.) Where would you get ethanol from ? They don't even sell it here that I know of .

One or 2 of the sites I posted address the why.
Plus there are political & "green" reasons to consider such.

But a starter compromise might be to use silver-grade gasohol (10% ethanol).
No expensive or time-consuming mods required.
No anchor to the fuel-tank range of the nearest E85 station.

 

[Guest]

I live in Oregon, so we have hippy stations all over the place...

 

[knightslugger]

Here we have BOTH E85 and Biodeisel filling stations. what makes it great is that it's WAAAAAY cheaper to buy and is made by our extended neighbors in the next county over.

 

[Guest]

Recent mandates in Canada require that all gas has at least 10 per cent ethanol. Although most gas has had 10 per cent for many, many years, recent mandates require 10 per cent of our gas sold to have that content - the current loophole, is that our companies are concentrating the 10 per cent content in our urban centres, like Toronto, and just selling regular fuel in our northern areas which have relatively low sales volumn.

I'm actually looking forward to more developments in ethanol and bio fuels, as I feel like a terrible person every time I go drive my car/bike just for the fun. Using a fuel I knew wasn't killing our planet might help me sleep at night. My next car will likely be a hybrid or flex-fuel vehicle.

Not that I can complain about global warming too much, given that up here in Canada, our annual snowfall didn't arrive until teh second week of January, and will likely disappear in mid-March if I guess correctly

 

[knightslugger]

I'm actually looking forward to more developments in ethanol and bio fuels, as I feel like a terrible person every time I go drive my car/bike just for the fun. Using a fuel I knew wasn't killing our planet might help me sleep at night. My next car will likely be a hybrid or flex-fuel vehicle.

burning any hydrocarbon fuel in a car adds to it. I wont call it a problem because really, it isn't. Avoid Hybrid cars. FlexFuel is a better alternative.

 

[fog]

Just a point, Before the Greene Weenes take over completely. Remember to calculate the cost in energy it takes to distill alcohol and add that to the environmental bill.

FOG

 

[MaximX]

I'm actually looking forward to more developments in ethanol and bio fuels, as I feel like a terrible person every time I go drive my car/bike just for the fun. Using a fuel I knew wasn't killing our planet might help me sleep at night. My next car will likely be a hybrid or flex-fuel vehicle.

burning any hydrocarbon fuel in a car adds to it. I wont call it a problem because really, it isn't. Avoid Hybrid cars. FlexFuel is a better alternative.

KS is right. The reason environmentalists like ethanol is that it is "renewable". In fact, ethanol I believe should produce MORE greenhouse gases than gas. This is because ethanol produces much less power than gasoline, so you have to burn more of it. I am not sure that this is a fact, but I believe it is true. What FOG said is right too.

Remember that 95% of what politicians do is for appearances sake! Ethanol sounds good to earth consience people, so when politicians mandate it, they look good. It has very little to do with science. Ethanol will NEVER replace gasoline - it is physically impossible for us to produce enough of it. So what is the ultimate answer? Noone knows because the politicians are worried about their image. yes - I am cynical. :-X

 

[MaximX]

Whoops, I was wrong, this report:

http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/58.pdf

says ethanol mixed with gas does reduce greenhouse gases. So knock yourself out!

 

[knightslugger]

That document needs to be updated. it was produced 8 years ago... 8 years is a lot of time for technology...

 

[Guest]

Just a point, Before the Greene Weenes take over completely. Remember to calculate the cost in energy it takes to distill alcohol and add that to the environmental bill.

FOG

Would it take any more effort to distill the ethanol fuel, than it would be to pump the raw oil, ship it, and refine it?

But yeah, I see your points about ethanol not necessarily being any better than gasoline. I guess it's the renewable aspect of it which gives me that fluffy feeling. I just like the idea of it as an option, as I have a hard time ever imaginging an electric motorcycle giving me that seem feeling of power and adventure, as when you're feeling a rumbling engine below you wihle you tear down the highway!

 

[fog]

Whoops, I was wrong, this report:

http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/58.pdf

says ethanol mixed with gas does reduce greenhouse gases. So knock yourself out!

Yep it sure does.
OK then what kind of silliness is the Gvmt. going to foist off on us to prevent the private distilling of grain alcohol as a fuel. Or are we going to be back to the Moonshiners and the revenuers. Down here in AR there already is an underground subculture of mooshiners. Maybe they can move the stills back to the main road and hang up a shingle. " White Lightning Fuel CO.

FOG

 

[dad]

Aside from the corrosion issues, alcohol requires a MUCH richer air to fuel ratio, about 45% richer for straight alcohol, if I recall correctly. That is why it's feasible to produce a computer controlled fuel injection system to run with it at will, just by sensing the fuel and adjusting the mixture in the computer. These bikes, being carbureted, would need jet changes to run alcohol. But that CAN be done. It actually runs nice in a motor. Fewer deposits, cleaner burning. Still doesn't fix the corrosion problems, plus, where do you get the stuff on a regular ride? Can't change back when you're stuck out somewhere.

There are other problems with alcohol, too. It's hygroscopic, absorbs water from the humidity in the air. That's also the property that makes it useful as "dry gas". Mixes with the water and allows it to pass though a system, in small amounts.

 

[Nick D]

Thats an understatement ! Unless your talking about the EXs ofcourse.

If we're talking about EX technology it'd be more like 18 years. Any older they'd have had to just put dinosaurs straight into the gas tank.

What I don't understand is the reasoning behind calling for ethanol increases by 2017. One would think that in 10 years we could come up with and put in place a better answer than, "Corn, the new gas." I guess as long as Judy SoccerMom needs to drive a 6-ton urban assault vehicle to the local school to pick up her one or two kids, or to the store for a gallon of milk, we'll just keep on saying things like, "Oh, burning old plants is going to save the world."

Enough of that, I guess, it's time to head out. Now where did I put the keys to my coal powered locomotive? ;D

 

[hollywood]

There is no way to prove that burning fossil fuel hurts the planet anyway.
And BTW stop siting government websites, they are always telling us the truth.
We only know what they want us to know. If there was a hole in the Ozone layer
we would all be fried. Global warming and freezing have occured on this planet for 4
billion years, the last ice age resulted because of global warming too...10,000 years
ago, I'm sure they didn't have alot of SUV's then.

 

[Frog]

Anyone looked for another option ???

what about Biodiesel ?

it's interchangeable with diesel, you can run anywhere between full diesel to full BD in the same tank.

it's renewable

not that complicated, made a batch last summer in my garage

premier ingredient is french fries oil ;D

And I heard the army had a Klr 650 version modified to run on diesel.. http://www.gizmag.com/go/4272/

the city buses are running on that, it's proven cleaner.

Go Bio D !

 

[Nick D]

My growing hate for the SUV is 1) an attack on those who say fuel is running out yet there are people driving trucks that get 10mpg or less and 2) a belief that people shouldn't be operating tanks to transport just themselves while chatting on their cellphones when they could be watching for motorcycle riders . If I gave a crap about the environment I'd get rid of my '65 Galaxie, or at least take the 390 v8 out of it.

If burning fossil fuels doesn't hurt the environment in any way, are you considering a smog a good thing? Or just pretending it doesn't exist?

 

[hollywood]

Proven today, in ten years they will say biodiesel is bad for the environment.
We have only been using gasoline for like less than 100 years, you can't tell
it's hurtng this planet, we have only been analysing pollution for maybe
20 years. Not enough data. BTW carbon monoxide is produced by every electronic
appliance in your house, don't get me started on how dangerous the freon in your
refridgerator is. Don't forget plasma TV's. you gonna throw yours out?

 

[Nick D]

Proven today, in ten years they will say biodiesel is bad for the environment.
We have only been using gasoline for like less than 100 years, you can't tell
it's hurtng this planet, we have only been analysing pollution for maybe
20 years. Not enough data. BTW carbon monoxide is produced by every electronic
appliance in your house, don't get me started on how dangerous the freon in your
refridgerator is. Don't forget plasma TV's. you gonna throw yours out?

There are definitely hazards to everything, and chemicals and byproducts involved in most if not all processes and even daily activities. But who's to say we shouldn't be pushing for all of those things to be fixed? The freon used in refrigeration has already been outlawed in some forms, replaced by others, and changed for different processes. It's better now than it was before, as is fuel (at least they got the lead out, right?). This thread just happens to be about fuel, E85 in particular.