[craig383]

Hello everyone I'm looking for some help or pointers on trying to figure out my issues
I have a 1997 gpz500r UK spec.

I got the bike as a project none runner (no keys)

I managed to remove the ignition module and drill the locking pins out of the tumbler so I can operate the ignition with a flat blade screw driver.

I tested the bike it spins over great but no spark,

Here are the things I've tested and ect to attempt to locate the issue.
100ohm grey resistor ok
Coils checked 4ohm and 13kohm on the main and second windings
(Battery is new and it's on charge while testing)
Clutch switch bypassed
Side stand bypassed
Front brake switch joined (temp)
The neutral light is on the bike is out of gear.

Things I noticed while IGN is on
oil pressure light does not come on
Tacho does not move while cranking
Maybe its a linked issue not sure?

I also found these faults and repaired them prior to fault checking.
3 wires onto the starter relay were cut off (I have fitted new spade connectors and popped them onto the relevant connections)
All the fuses check out good x2 were blown

My next steps are to use a led flasher to check for pulse from stator
After this I'm kind of at a end and prob will end up changing the cdi unit?
And thoughts guys t.i.a
Craig.

 

[craig383]

Followed the wiki on testing pickups,
I measure the resistance between the 2 pin connector on the stator side (ex500d version single pick up)I get 470ohm.
Which is in spec
However testing each pin to ground I get open circuit no resistance is that right ?

I did the led flasher test on the same plug and as the engine is cranking the led does infact flash

 

[haybaler]

Key on, any power to the red wire at either coil?

 

[craig383]

yes 12v on both red wires buddy

 

[onewizard]

Here we go. This may sound unusual, take your meter and connect to your positive battery terminal, you mentioned both red wires I assume are going to the CDI , the other wire is negative from the ECM , using your negative meter lead connect to the other wire of the cdi, try keying on post the VDC and then cranking VDC on those wires, each unit has a separate wire from the ECM , the red wires are common positive from the kill switch ,and ECM I don't have a current drawing but this could be a starting point.

 

[craig383]

hey onewizard ,
so the results are as follows
coil one <green wire>
0 volts / and zero volts cranking
coil two <black/white trace>
0 volts / 0 volts cranking
batt voltage 12.8 static /11.9v cranking <i am slave connected to a diesel 12v car battery to eliminate voltage drop >

thanks
Craig

 

[onewizard]

Well we are getting somewhere. I need a electrical drawing. Basically your ECM. Is preventing it to fire. With a drawing I could give test points. This is common on many motorcycles. Consider the total fused power going to these devices, something fails within the cdi , say it shorts to ground, the supply fuse is taken out, had the fused positive gone through the ECM under the same fault, expect to replace the ECM . A corroded ground on the ECM , a corroded connector. With a drawing I could narrow it down.

 

[craig383]

Okay I think this is the correct current flow diagram for bike
Vin no is EX500D-03****
Going by this diagram I should see 10v (12v 100ohm resistor grey wire) on the 3 pin plug left side of the igniter ?

Thank in advance
Craig

 

[onewizard]

Sorry, you would have been better off taking the first horizontal ( I can't rotate it) Then two closer up side by side. I am on 21-inch high-resolution monitor, I can't read anything clearly.

I did a search and found something.

 

[onewizard]

So OLD technology and nothing wrong with it. NO ECM.
There is a pickup coil going into the "Ignitor" . Disconnect that and using a ohm meter measure the resistance. There should be a test in the manual for that6 pickup coil, using a meter.

Have you had your junction box out and inspected both sides of the printed circuit board-I assume all the fuses have been checked.

With the key on, operate your signal lights-do they work? Part of the ignition circuit fusing.


Going by this diagram I should see 10v (12v 100ohm resistor grey wire) on the 3 pin plug left side of the igniter ?
I do not see that anywhere. try connecting you meter, volts DC , one lead on either side of the resistor and try starting it, post the voltage shown while starting.
Also the current in series with that resistor is 0.120 amp maximum at 12 VDC. not very much.

I think that resistor is a run current resistor.
In the drawing it shows a gray wire coming from the ignition switch ( positive power) in the on position that gray wire goes to the pickup coil which has a yellow and black wire coming out of it. Is the yellow and black what you call a resistor or do you have a drawing photo of this 100 ohm?

I see a brown wire coming from the start switch ( positive) it goes to the start relay and also to the ignitor- this is am momentary positive source to the ignitor, once the bike is running, that wire is open, I would assume this 100 ohm resistor is connected to this brown wire within the ignitor.

 

[craig383]

Ok
So....
I've checked the pick up I'm getting a resistance value of 470ohm
I also led flasher tested the pick up coil all is good there
I checked the grey wire , I had zero volts to the igniter box ,
Checking the wiring found the ign switch at fault
I bypassed the switch and wire the brown grey and white wire together , added a 100ohm resistor inline on the grey wire I'm now at 6v at the igniter switch
I have removed the fuse box checked all the fuses again and stripped the board down and had a look over nothing sticks out to be at fault with it
I cannot test the lights / horn / flashers ect as the handle bar switch gear on the left is missing atm I have ordered a replacement but it dosent look linked into the start / run
Anything else I can check and is the 6v too low at the igniter ?
I'm sure it's supposed to be 10v otherwise it won't spark (so I read)
T.i.a

(Edit)
6v on the grey wire at the igniter
If I unplug the igniter I get 12v on the grey i

 

[onewizard]

Is the 100 ohm resistor for over-current protection?
If so, a much simpler method is using a headlight bulb in series
One unique thing about incandescent, the value of resistance is roughly 1/10 of that when giving off light. Another way of saying that, the inrush current is between 6 and 10 times that of running. Say a 100 watt bulb at 100 VAC is 1 amp, initially it is 6 to 10 amp for 3 to 5 Milli seconds.
So connected in series, if nothing is wrong in the ignitor, the bike will just run-if something is wrong, the bulb will be very bright, but say it is 55 watt bulb-at 12 volts the greatest current is roughly 4.5 ADC maximum.

 

[craig383]

The grey wire 100ohm resistor is for anti theft
If someone were to just snip the ignition switch wires and twist them together the bike wouldn't start
The cdi/ignitor takes a ref voltage from the gray wire and sees the difference between that and the brown 12v wire and knows its good to start
As winding all the wires together would just give 12v down the grey and the igniter knows that's not correct and won't give spark
(This is just from what I have read on the forum so far )
This is the function of the 100ohm set up
Either way I fitted the resistor and still no spark.... ha ha ha
So I fear there is somthing else causing the issue

 

[yorkie]

try putting the resistor between the brown and grey wire (as it is in the switch) rather than in line, with the grey and brown taking power from the white wire (as it is in the switch) then assuming you disconnected the wires from the switch connect the the red/blue to the red separately (as it is in the switch) it may make no difference but it could do. it is possible you missed a connection (through another component) that is not powering something that should be powered.
reading through the thread it seems you know what your doing. as an aside when ordering any parts especially electrical make sure they are from the right model. as other models are wired differently. but I'm sure you know this already.

 

[onewizard]

Entertainment--I am sure @yorkie know a whole lot more about these models than I do. I assume the 100 ohm probably goes to a equal to or less than circuit to give a output . One thing, we have proven the kill switch works.!

 

[onewizard]

Well interesting, I have the drawing up , I wear trifocals to lots of fun, I see where the resistor is inserted between the key-switch and brown wire. With the switch on, it shows that gray wire as IGN. What I see is the gray should be the full 12 VDC and the brown a reduced voltage, you should be able to take a meter, connect to the negative battery terminal and if you insert the resistor unless that is something else in the drawing.Measure across the resistor and post the voltage. Subtract that from battery voltage and that is what the brown wire is at within the ignitor.-Or Not

 

[yorkie]

yeah, it's a balance resistor between the grey and brown (aux wire) inside the igniter wrong balance no spark. like a set of scales too much or too little the balance is out so the circuit shuts down. that is why it's specifically 100ohms.

it is partly due to this that when the battery voltage drops below 10.5 volts the bike fails to start. I say partly because the gen 1 does the same thing and there is no resistor present in the system but one of similar function is inside the CDI.

we will have to see through experimentation what works and what doesn't, the thing is and this is always at the back of my mind with these situations, if the bike (as is usual) has been left stood for a few or many years, why was it parked up in the first place all that time ago. now it could be just circumstance. or something went wrong and the owner couldn't fix it so tossed the keys and left it. if all this playing with the spark doesn't bear fruit there are deeper issues somewhere.

 

[craig383]

Thanks for the input fellas I shall post results this evening once I finish work,
I'll try the brown and grey wire resistance @yorkie
And yes I get what you mean about why it has been stood or parked to begin with. Its true it Could be anything ......but...... regardles it won't best me
Even if I have to replace the whole electrical system the bike it going back into service ha ha ha
The bike just dosent know that yet
We will figure it out I'm sure

 

[craig383]

Well interesting, I have the drawing up , I wear trifocals to lots of fun, I see where the resistor is inserted between the key-switch and brown wire. With the switch on, it shows that gray wire as IGN. What I see is the gray should be the full 12 VDC and the brown a reduced voltage, you should be able to take a meter, connect to the negative battery terminal and if you insert the resistor unless that is something else in the drawing.Measure across the resistor and post the voltage. Subtract that from battery voltage and that is what the brown wire is at within the ignitor.-Or Not

View attachment 55669

Are you sure you have the right current flow diagram buddy?
As my ignition system differs from this
The bikes are different from NA and Europe
My ignition system is a 5 wire system
My bike is a 1997/98 UK spec
Er500-03
Tia
Craig.

 

[onewizard]

Are you sure you have the right current flow diagram buddy?
As my ignition system differs from this
The bikes are different from NA and Europe
My ignition system is a 5 wire system
My bike is a 1997/98 UK spec
Er500-03
Tia
Craig.

That is the biggest challenge-I can find any electrical problem with a proper drawing , I did it for a living for almost 40 years-the only blockage is ECM or ECU-no way of knowing the circuitry within. I have found flaws in Kawasaki wiring covering 2003 to last production year of KLR , Ninja 650, 2007 Versys, X300 . Generally all Kawasaki 650 and larger displacement since 2003.

I am sure @yorkie has the inside scoop and is far more knowledgeable on this model than I am