[Kona500]

Nice rust, live near the ocean?
Suggest you check engine compression and leakdown.

Yes I live on the big island. Kailua Kona, HI

 

[ridervfr]

You need an air filter. Either OEM or something after market. There will be others that chime in here. I guess the pilot screws have their tamper proof covers already off then its just a question of what you said, getting the correct size screwdriver to fit where you don't damage the slot. PeaCe

 

[ducatiman]

The only thing left to clean is the pilot jets. I just don't understand why I can get the bike to pull from the main jets if the pilot jets are clogged.

2 entirely different circuits, employing separate fuel/air paths. A transition area exists between the 2 as well.
Limiting the efforts to pulling the pilot jets leaves out a lot. To TRULY clean the entire pilot circuit, the pilot adjust screws MUST be removed as well. Take note of the spring and tiny washer and oring. REPLACE the pilot orings with new, it'll be deformed, flat or rock hard or all 3. Replace the bowl orings with new as well.
If you continue having difficulty, consider a full, pro refurb from that Crab Service guy on here. These EX's getting old, more extensive carb service becoming a requirement.

Forgot to add....the spray "priming" procedure direct into venturi bypasses all the above mentioned circuits....

Any intentions of clearing the fuel pick up points in the starting (enrichening) circuit?

 

[yorkie]

My question is, would a single plugged pilot jet or even 2 plugged pilot jets prevent the bike from sucking fuel from the main jets because I can run it on 50% throttle if I spray fuel into the carbs but it won't continue to run its self at 50% throttle. Seems to me like if I can get it to run at 50% throttle it should be pulling fuel through the main jets and should continue running, but that is not the case. Am I wrong in assuming that?

absolutely YES you are wrong. you obviously have some mechanical knowledge. but none as to how CVK carbs work. they are not like an ordinary carb. you need to bone up on this as explaining in detail would take two hrs. I don't have. besides it so boring you would be asleep before the end.

so very basically all the fuel needed to start and run the engine comes out of the pilot jets alone. the slides are lifted by vacuum not the throttle butterflies. no start no vacuum no lift. no fuel out of the mains. the pilot jets are very small #35's so anything entering the system bigger than 0.035mm will block the jets. the internal pathways are not very much wider either so these have to be clear also. for comparison purposes a #35 jet is the same diameter as a no12 guitar string.
yeah that small.
@ducatiman's answer above answers the rest of your question.

 

[ducatiman]

bottom line, a comprehensive, full carb service is justified. Example...look at the pics and list of stuff that Crab guy does here SOLD REFURBED carbset #84 That post entails the stuff you need to do.
Coincidentally, I just happen to know he'll have another set of refurbs in about a week. He's also done carb services for (and shipped to) Hawaii EX500 members in the past.

 

[Kona500]

2 entirely different circuits, employing separate fuel/air paths. A transition area exists between the 2 as well.
Limiting the efforts to pulling the pilot jets leaves out a lot. To TRULY clean the entire pilot circuit, the pilot adjust screws MUST be removed as well. Take note of the spring and tiny washer and oring. REPLACE the pilot orings with new, it'll be deformed, flat or rock hard or all 3. Replace the bowl orings with new as well.
If you continue having difficulty, consider a full, pro refurb from that Crab Service guy on here. These EX's getting old, more extensive carb service becoming a requirement.

Forgot to add....the spray "priming" procedure direct into venturi bypasses all the above mentioned circuits....

Any intentions of clearing the fuel pick up points in the starting (enrichening) circuit?

I took apart the pilot jets and cleaned them with a guitar string. Turns out I use 12s on my acoustic so I was all set. Can see light through them. Shot carb cleaner through all the holes on the circuit. Put it back together and now it's doing what it was doing the day it happened. Starts, idles to a crawl over a several seconds. Dies. If I give it throttle it dies immediately. If choke it, I hit 3krpms for a second, then it dies.

 

[ducatiman]

Varnish and corrosion in carbs is not selective, it invades everywhere, clogging circuits deep within, not visible. In your case more effective methods are required to produce genuinely positive results. Nothing unusual, some carbs worse than others due to varying conditions, maintenance history, storage conditions, dormancy....requiring different levels of aggression using varying methods....some more effective than others. Example, are you using actual compressed air? (not from a can)

 

[Kona500]

Varnish and corrosion in carbs is not selective, it invades everywhere, clogging circuits deep within, not visible. In your case more effective methods are required to produce genuinely positive results. Nothing unusual, some carbs worse than others due to varying conditions, maintenance history, storage conditions, dormancy....requiring different levels of aggression using varying methods....some more effective than others. Example, are you using actual compressed air? (not from a can)

View attachment 53201 View attachment 53202

No I'm just blasting carb cleaner through it.
But honestly the carbs looked pretty good. They weren't dirty or gummed up at all.

 

[ducatiman]

No I'm just blasting carb cleaner through it.
But honestly the carbs looked pretty good. They weren't dirty or gummed up at all.

so should be running fine, right? But.....its not.

 

[Kona500]

Correct. So where to from here? Some sort of vacuum test? Valves?

 

[ducatiman]

As its running after spray "priming" , I'd still suggest a redo on carb clean using real compressed air, minimum. You've missed various circuits that canned carb cleaner alone can't possibly resolve.

At this point, I'll yield to other members to provide input.

 

[yorkie]

I think there is very little input to be made if the pro's can't get to the bottom of it. all I would say is this issue is not new it's happened so many times before. carbs off cleaned out no better. off again cleaned again still no better. something is being overlooked absolutely no doubt. most have a couple of goes then get the carbs shipped off to be done properly.
I have little else to add except if it was running before and now it is not whatever stopped it working is still wrong with it.
seems pretty obvious to me.

 

[FlipFlop]

You will need a filter in there those carbs need that resistance to operate correctly. It is possible that this is a long time thing coming, Might be time to pull them and rebuild them or send them to Ducatiman let him rebuild them, he does perfect work, and in the mean time get the filter or the minimum a K&N for it. I use K&N in mine, still stock caps on the carbs, and just when I bought this 2009 just about Thanksgiving I drilled the...Lets just say Fog Air Box Mod. Read this article (link below) on it and it will make sense why you need that set up for things to run right.

Here is a start.

 

[haybaler]

"Starts, idles to a crawl over a several seconds. Dies. If I give it throttle it dies immediately. If choke it, I hit 3krpms for a second, then it dies."
Is that the symptom you get if you try to run without an airbox? Sounds like one of the vacuum spigots is open to air. Replace airbox anyway!


Can't we get back to the fundamentals?

1. Compression Test!!
If compression is 80 and 110, then it needs engine work, right?
If compression is 155 and 160, then engine is okay.

2. Check spark: hook up timing light or actual spark tester rig, and watch for fluctuation when the engine turns.

3. If spark is good and constant, then repair or replace the carbs.

Troubleshooting is easy; comedy is hard!

 

[ducatiman]

Copied from OP's 1st post..................."Backstory: pulled in the driveway after a ride and bike was bogging." "Bike starts if I force fuel in via carb spray"

Clearly a carb/fuel issue. And OP's efforts at a carb clean without the use of genuine compressed air went (understandably) unrewarded.

Sure, he can play with compression/spark tests, but the starting when direct priming is the big telltale leading to a fuel issue.

 

[beersrus]

Bike starts if I force fuel in via carb spray ect. I know this is just a fuel delivery issue but I just can't seem to figure it out.

Backstory: pulled in the driveway after a ride and bike was bogging. Made sense, I was low on fuel. I fill it up, it starts but bogs and dies after seconds. If I give it throttle it does immediately. Obviously its beyond being low on fuel. Now it won't start at all unless i spray in fuel or blow in the carb vent which forces fuel ro run out into the carb

Petcock: FINE. Press starter with fuel line detached and fuel sprays out

Carb: Also seems fine. Blasted out jets with carb spray. Needle and diaphragms look fine. Everything moves fine. Floats both move together fine. I have fuel in the float bowl BUT WHY ISNT IT GOING INTO THE ENGINE??
I have never been so stumped on what should be so simple. The fuel is in the bowl, the jets are open why isn't it sucking in fuel?????? HELP


Vacuum lines all seem to be fine.
View attachment 53194 View attachment 53195 View attachment 53196

there is a filter in the petcock, on the tank side. that's the first thing that gets clogged when you see that much corrosion on the fuel lid.

 

[Kona500]

8

Copied from OP's 1st post..................."Backstory: pulled in the driveway after a ride and bike was bogging." "Bike starts if I force fuel in via carb spray"

Clearly a carb/fuel issue. And OP's efforts at a carb clean without the use of genuine compressed air went (understandably) unrewarded.

Sure, he can play with compression/spark tests, but the starting when direct priming is the big telltale leading to a fuel issue.

Got an air compressor. Blasted the **** out of every passage way with air compressor and carb spray back and forth. Everything has to be good. Start it, she runs. Barely.

Its was running on the right cylinder only. I wiggle the ground trigger wire, start it again, it runs at double the rpms. Both cylinders. Cool.

Set the idle screw to bring it back down to 1200. Now it revs to like 4-5k, then fizzles out. It stays running, just won't go past 4-5k. It will climb there fairly quickly and I can hear both cylinders running. Pilot screws both at 2.5

Whats my next move?

Do I need to address all my contacts?

Could my carbs be out of sync?

What would cause me to not be able to rev past 4-5k??

 

[haybaler]

"...wiggle the ground trigger wire..."

 

[yorkie]

it is possible you have other issues. worth a check. no it is not unusual for the bike to run with a cylinder down after a period of running issues as one or both of the plugs could be wet. or dirtied up. yes they could be out of balance after a carb clean. question have you refitted the airbox yet these bikes don't run well without the box ask anyone who has tried running pods.

 

[ducatiman]

AFA higher RPM...Have you examined the carb diaphragm rubbers for rips, tears, holes? The slides and needles clean, able to rise via finger pressure and fall unimpeded via their return springs?

"Its was running on the right cylinder only. I wiggle the ground trigger wire, start it again, it runs at double the rpms. Both cylinders. Cool."

Yeah, in light of the corrosion conditions in your prior pic, that bike in dire need of further maintenance. Close revue of all grounds, connectors and electrical stuff would be wise.