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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I’ve always thought of my bike as slow, maybe not slow slow but I wouldn’t have called it fast.
But me and my friend in his R6 were cruising and decided to do some pulls and 2/3 times he could not keep up, and I had him at at least 3-5 car lengths, he said he was pushing it and dropped a gear too, Which surprised the hell out of me because I’ve always thought of my bike as “slow” and when I ride his bike it literally feels like a rocket.
I was thinking it could also be the weight difference as he’s about 80 pounds heavier... but I’m pretty sure his bike is lighter as well so.
 

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When it comes to racing in any environment. I feel weight plays a big factor. I’m still new so when it comes to the actual mechanics or other explanation I’m no help at the moment.
 

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Yeah an 80 lb. weight difference is going to give you a significant advantage.
 

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A lot depends on the rider. I have 70+ year old buddies I ride with in Georgia that tear up the roads like it was nothing on their Harley's and Raiders! (One is a former Vietnam Vet helicopter pilot!) And I've seen the guys on the sports bikes who can't ride for ****.
Go watch the 250cc races and tell me they're slow!!!
 

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how fast is your 500r. honestly !! no idea. never had it balls out it's a road bike. honest officer !!. 2 things I do know it's too dam fast for 70+ rider who's reactions have slowed somewhat in the last 30 years. and the faster it goes the more unreactive it feels. all I could possibly say in context to the thread is I sometimes get ride with my lads and their mates. all have bigger bikes than the 500 most are over 600. no matter where we go or how far. I am not usually last o_O
 

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I’ve always thought of my bike as slow, maybe not slow slow but I wouldn’t have called it fast.
But me and my friend in his R6 were cruising and decided to do some pulls and 2/3 times he could not keep up, and I had him at at least 3-5 car lengths, he said he was pushing it and dropped a gear too, Which surprised the hell out of me because I’ve always thought of my bike as “slow” and when I ride his bike it literally feels like a rocket.
I was thinking it could also be the weight difference as he’s about 80 pounds heavier... but I’m pretty sure his bike is lighter as well so.
An R6 should waste an EX. What RPM's is he riding at when he starts the pull? 600 super sports have power bands. In the power band and they're fast as hell, outside and they lag like crazy. Ever seen that Top gear video of the Mitsu Evolution on and off the turbo?
 

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In a throttle roll on at normal speed a twin will out pull a modern 600 -1000cc bike.

A 600 like the R6 doesn’t begin making power until around 8-9K rpm. That’s where its peak torque is. Any twin cylinder makes torque from a much lower RPM. Some from as low as 2800 RPM with a torque peak arriving as low as 6500-7K RPM.

You gotta spin an R6 to get it to make power. It doesn’t run out of steam until somewhere North of 12K. My little 600 GSXR makes torque from a much lower RPM than the R6 and it’s still gotta rev a bunch to really get a forward drive you can feel.

Below 2500 RPM it’s docile, easy to live with and almost feels gutless. Until you look at the speedometer. Then you feel like you couldn’t possibly be going as fast as you are. At around 5K it starts waking up and by 7K is pulling like a bigger bike and shrieking like a MotoGP bike.

Okay, that might be an exaggeration but I’m sure I’ve made my point. My EX would already be pulling hard by the time the GSXR woke up and have reached its terminal velocity by the time the GSXR got to its peak RPM.

Add in an 80lb weight advantage and the EX should win a throttle roll on without a down shift in almost any situation that begins at normal, legal speeds.

When it comes to twisty roads, I never had an issue keeping up with bigger bikes....but I’m sure I had to ride a bit harder than if were aboard one of my own bigger bikes.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
In a throttle roll on at normal speed a twin will out pull a modern 600 -1000cc bike.

A 600 like the R6 doesn’t begin making power until around 8-9K rpm. That’s where its peak torque is. Any twin cylinder makes torque from a much lower RPM. Some from as low as 2800 RPM with a torque peak arriving as low as 6500-7K RPM.

You gotta spin an R6 to get it to make power. It doesn’t run out of steam until somewhere North of 12K. My little 600 GSXR makes torque from a much lower RPM than the R6 and it’s still gotta rev a bunch to really get a forward drive you can feel.

Below 2500 RPM it’s docile, easy to live with and almost feels gutless. Until you look at the speedometer. Then you feel like you couldn’t possibly be going as fast as you are. At around 5K it starts waking up and by 7K is pulling like a bigger bike and shrieking like a MotoGP bike.

Okay, that might be an exaggeration but I’m sure I’ve made my point. My EX would already be pulling hard by the time the GSXR woke up and have reached its terminal velocity by the time the GSXR got to its peak RPM.

Add in an 80lb weight advantage and the EX should win a throttle roll on without a down shift in almost any situation that begins at normal, legal speeds.

When it comes to twisty roads, I never had an issue keeping up with bigger bikes....but I’m sure I had to ride a bit harder than if were aboard one of my own bigger bikes.
We were hanging at around 6-9k I believe. but his bike is also lighter than mine by about about 70lbs give or take. that Would also balance out the 80lbs rider difference no?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
An R6 should waste an EX. What RPM's is he riding at when he starts the pull? 600 super sports have power bands. In the power band and they're fast as hell, outside and they lag like crazy. Ever seen that Top gear video of the Mitsu Evolution on and off the turbo?
those were my thoughts too. We were both probably hanging at around 6-9K, he was also saying that too after I asked him if he was going full throttle because I was genuinely surprised at how I had him at a good length, and he said he was trying his hardest to pass when we were about neck to neck but couldn’t.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
how fast is your 500r. honestly !! no idea. never had it balls out it's a road bike. honest officer !!. 2 things I do know it's too dam fast for 70+ rider who's reactions have slowed somewhat in the last 30 years. and the faster it goes the more unreactive it feels. all I could possibly say in context to the thread is I sometimes get ride with my lads and their mates. all have bigger bikes than the 500 most are over 600. no matter where we go or how far. I am not usually last o_O
[/QUOT
Yeah an 80 lb. weight difference is going to give you a significant advantage.
his bike is around 70lbs lighter too tho
 

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are you sure about the weight. the spread sheet I just looked at says the EX500 is 176kg wet the R6 is 190 kg dry.
 

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are you sure about the weight. the spread sheet I just looked at says the EX500 is 176kg wet the R6 is 190 kg dry.
I was thinking the same. My 2004 GSXR is something like 390 lbs dry.....387 IIRC. Pretty much what the EX weighs with all vital fluids.

Add a gallon of coolant, a gallon of oil and 4 gallons of regular and that's an increase of about 42 lbs. On my GSXR that equals 429 lbs.

I looked up weights for the R6. In 2010 the internetz list 407 lbs as its "Curb Weight" which I take to mean, ready to ride. That weight goes up to 417 for 2015 and 419 for 2018. As we don't know what year the subject R6 is, we can't come up with actual figures.

Based on that though, I'd guess we're talking about a wet weight of 387 for the EX and a wet weight of 419 for the R6 at worst case. Still, that doesn't equal the R6 being 70lbs lighter.

What I wrote earlier still applies though. The EX makes peak torque of 46.1 NM at 8500 RPM. The R6 makes peak torque of 59.4 NM at 11,500.

In a top gear roll on at normal highway speed, the R6 is not going to get anywhere close to that peak torque for a fairly good way down the road. The rider would need to down shift to probably 3rd gear to get the engine to spin up to 11.5K to tap into that higher peak torque.

The other thing is, the EX is about 85% into its peak torque from as low as 2500 RPM. It maintains this torque curve all the way to its peak between 7K and 9K after which begins to trail off but never drops below that 85%.

If both bikes were at that RPM, the EX is well into the meat of its torque curve. The R6 is a more complex graph. Its peak torque does not occur at or even near it's peak horsepower. From the internetz, the dyno graphs show a peak torque at 11,500 but peak HP at 14,500 with a steep drop after the peak.

What that says to me is, in a throttle roll on, in 6th at highway speed, the R6 will bog down and slowly accelerate enough for the engine to reach it's peak torque at 11,500 when it will "wake up" and lunge forward to its peak HP rpm at 14,500. That's when the EX rider will see nothing but it's tail lights.

That could take a mile or so to accomplish without a down shift. If you guys are rolling out of the throttle at given speed, the R6 might never reach its peak engine speed to develop the power it is capable of.

I've not ridden an R6 since sometime in 2004 or 5. Even back then it was more like riding a 2 stroke where the power came in at a high RPM and there was only a narrow window in which it made that power.

I much prefer the way the power comes on with the GSXR of the same displacement. It's smoother and more spread out over the tach rather than bunched up nearer the top. I got no need to visit deep in to 3 digit speeds. All the fun is in the twisty stuff at speeds under 90 for the most part.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
I just did a little more research and according to this site the ninja sits just under 415lbs while the r6 is at 366lbs. I’d also like to point out that my buddy dropped my bike on the grass and when he picked it up, he said something along the lines of “Jesus man this thing is a fucking boulder”, and when I rode his bike it felt lighter to me as well, which was also a surprise to me.


Also that is good to know, I’ve always wanted a gsxr but was starting to lean more towards an r6 or cbr for a bit. Now that I know that I think I’ll be back on thinking about the gsxr lol



 

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I just did a little more research and according to this site the ninja sits just under 415lbs while the r6 is at 366lbs. I’d also like to point out that my buddy dropped my bike on the grass and when he picked it up, he said something along the lines of “Jesus man this thing is a fucking boulder”, and when I rode his bike it felt lighter to me as well, which was also a surprise to me.


Also that is good to know, I’ve always wanted a gsxr but was starting to lean more towards an r6 or cbr for a bit. Now that I know that I think I’ll be back on thinking about the gsxr lol



You didn't include what many consider to be the best of the 600's....the "cheater" Kawasaki ZX-6R in 636cc spec.

Personally, I think that 600's make awesome track bikes but can be frustrating on the road. Their power bands, weight and size and handling lend themselves to the dedication and focus of a racetrack, but make less sense to me on a road. I don't want to be caught in the wrong gear and get left in the dust at the lights by soccer mom "Beryl" in her Dodge Caravan with 6 kids in the back screaming to go to McD's....I want to light the blue touch paper and enter warp speed in most any gear. To me, if you are doing a GSX-R, go all in and get the 1K. 😈

(I owned a gixxer 750....never stopped wishing I'd gotten a 1000 instead)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
You didn't include what many consider to be the best of the 600's....the "cheater" Kawasaki ZX-6R in 636cc spec.

Personally, I think that 600's make awesome track bikes but can be frustrating on the road. Their power bands, weight and size and handling lend themselves to the dedication and focus of a racetrack, but make less sense to me on a road. I don't want to be caught in the wrong gear and get left in the dust at the lights by soccer mom "Beryl" in her Dodge Caravan with 6 kids in the back screaming to go to McD's....I want to light the blue touch paper and enter warp speed in most any gear. To me, if you are doing a GSX-R, go all in and get the 1K. 😈

(I owned a gixxer 750....never stopped wishing I'd gotten a 1000 instead)
But then I’d be spending most of my time trying to keep my front wheel on the ground 😅
 

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I just did a little more research and according to this site the ninja sits just under 415lbs while the r6 is at 366lbs. I’d also like to point out that my buddy dropped my bike on the grass and when he picked it up, he said something along the lines of “Jesus man this thing is a fucking boulder”, and when I rode his bike it felt lighter to me as well, which was also a surprise to me.


Also that is good to know, I’ve always wanted a gsxr but was starting to lean more towards an r6 or cbr for a bit. Now that I know that I think I’ll be back on thinking about the gsxr lol



366 is dry weight for the 09 and up r6. Gotta add fluid weight to that. With the listed capacities on the manufacturer website you're probably looking at around 420ish wet.
While the ex starts at 388 dry (2nd gen) and ends up around 438 wet. All this still leaves your buddy at a 68lb disadvantage not to mention the power band of the r6.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

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What year R6?

Here is an ex500 dyno

51889

Here is a 08-16? R6 with a slip on (both dynojet, sae corrected, and 3 smoothing which is important for comparison purposes)

51890


We can see that at the same rpm, the power is similar. I have no doubt a lighter EX could pull an R6 at the same rpm. You also have to factor in gearing. I'm too lazy to look up transmission ratios but my guess is the R6 has longer gearing overall and is pulling a larger/heavier tire.


As for how fast my EX500 was, I could get 0-60 in mid 4's. That's the only speed metric I ever tried with it :)


One thing I miss about the EX is being able to rip through some gears. Top of 3rd on my speed triples or previous FJ would be into triple digits.
 

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I just did a little more research and according to this site the ninja sits just under 415lbs while the r6 is at 366lbs. I’d also like to point out that my buddy dropped my bike on the grass and when he picked it up, he said something along the lines of “Jesus man this thing is a fucking boulder”, and when I rode his bike it felt lighter to me as well, which was also a surprise to me.


Also that is good to know, I’ve always wanted a gsxr but was starting to lean more towards an r6 or cbr for a bit. Now that I know that I think I’ll be back on thinking about the gsxr lol



Those links are comparing the dry weight of the r6 to the curb weight of the EX.
EX dry weight 176kg
EX curb weight:
Front 93 kg
Rear 104 kg

You guys will have to do the math to convert from metric.
 

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I'll tell you the ex can be a very different MC depending on gearing. My race bike at Bridghampton (with a tail wind) would need a 17/40 gear and show 130 [email protected] K rpm
then at Loudon, running 15/44 top would be 95 mph but would lift the front wheel in 3rd gear.
So yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice

FOG
 

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I actually weighed my EX a few years ago. With a 3/4 tank of gas and the original mufflers ditched for the much lighter Cobra F1's, weight was 427lbs.
With a full tank of gas and original mufflers, I'd be willing to bet a curb weight in the mid-430 pound range probable.

That's all I've got to add to this.
 
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