Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R banner

Ignition problems after coolant change?

442 Views 26 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  Waahson
I'm at work so there won't be pictures for a few hours, I just wanted to get this thread started asap.

I'll keep it simple:
Bike ran fine, sometimes took a little effort to start (figured this was carb/valve related)
Did a coolant change
Spilled a bit of water and antifreeze on the components near the fill hole
Changed air filter

Solenoid fuse blew
Installed new one
New one melted
Found a 30 amp fuse in place a 10 amp in the fuse box for the ignition, looks like the spare

Bike has power but the ignition is completely disconnected.

My old man helped me troubleshoot it the first time the fuse blew and he said the antifreeze spilling on the compenents in theory could technically cause that, but it's unlikely and would point towards a different issue.

Only thing I can think of is the turn signals came with a relay the previous owner never installed, so they blink really fast. I was recently told this is bad for the battery, but could it have caused the ignition to fail? The wire (brown and white) is in rough shape too and the fuse box stinks.

Sorry the post is sporadic and lacks pics/details. I'm in a rush and will share more when I get home.
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Also, we put a new fuse in the solenoid and had another 30 in the ignition just to see if it would get power. Once again, everything but the ignition button had power. I'm thinking the wire is just toast (I'll attach a picture when I can). It's exposed and burnt.

New wiring harness? No way I'm replacing a single wire. Still gotta figure out why this happened.
Time to get the trusty multi meter out! Easy enough for the starter circuit, but yeah, anti freeze is really just water (hint, hint) so it could be shorting somewhere.
Yeah we did a little poking around with the multimeter but didn't find anything. We were pretty short on time.

Just a little annoyed that this happened after just a coolant change. Like why? It's 75 degrees out today :(

Wash kinda hoping someone would pop in with some magic fix that doesn't involve replacing the harness. Like "there's a connector hidden in this secret compartment behind the dungeon of an airbox, comes undone sometimes when you take off the tank." But then again, that wouldn't cause the fuse to blow. I figure a new harness is needed, that's what my old man thinks at least.

Bleeeeeeeh
Get yourself a handful of 10a fuses and figure out what makes the fuse blow. Go methodically.

why would you prefer to change an entire harness over changing one wire??

use a jumper wire w/ alligator clips to isolate fried wires out of circuits if they have lost continuity (for testing purposes only)

if you have wires that look bad and burnt, replace them! They don’t heal themselves

We were pretty short on time.
😆🤣
Also let the bike dry out if you truly think moisture is the issue. Use compressed air judiciously if you are feeling impatient
Well the wire goes through the entirety of the insulation wrapping. Was reading it's not worth cutting open, and my grandfather seemed to agree.

Idk, I just started understanding my engine and carbs, my brain wasn't ready for electronics yet haha.

And yeah, I just grabbed a bunch of 10s and 30s on my break.
yeah mechanics is one thing, electrics is a whole new ball game.
Well the wire goes through the entirety of the insulation wrapping. Was reading it's not worth cutting open, and my grandfather seemed to agree.

Idk, I just started understanding my engine and carbs, my brain wasn't ready for electronics yet haha.

And yeah, I just grabbed a bunch of 10s and 30s on my break.
would agree that it’s not worth cutting the insulation open @ this point, so why not just run the new wire along the insulation (outside) and leave the crap wire inside? A few thin zip ties or some other fixative if you’re into things looking nice and neat.

and yes combustion and electrical are separate beasts, but don't be Intimidated, your brain may grasp electrical easier!
Yeah that makes sense. I guess I just don't like the idea of an exposed wire being in my bike, even if it's not hot. A lack of knowledge is making me a bit timid, and electricity makes me nervous. I'd turn the bike off and take the keys out before touching anything metal when looking at the fuses, but my grandfather had his hands all over the frame and around the battery when troubleshooting.

I don't like being shocked haha. I'm a bit of a cautious individual.
Yeah that makes sense. I guess I just don't like the idea of an exposed wire being in my bike, even if it's not hot. A lack of knowledge is making me a bit timid, and electricity makes me nervous. I'd turn the bike off and take the keys out before touching anything metal when looking at the fuses, but my grandfather had his hands all over the frame and around the battery when troubleshooting.

I don't like being shocked haha. I'm a bit of a cautious individual.
Easiest way of not getting shocked is not to work with live wires. Also 12v really can't kill you unless you're really trying.
As far as exposed wires on the bike the thing is that when you have a short that is a result of an exposed wire. Whether between two wires or the shorted wire to ground. You can also wrap the wire up with electrical tape and it'd be pretty much as good as new.
Electricity is honestly pretty easy. Supply(positive 12v from the battery), load(anything being run; starter motor, lights, computer, etc), ground(path back to the battery, negative) with some wire bringing it all together.
Your short is electricity finding a shorter path to ground. The shorter path is letting more electricity though than what the load would take, causing the blown fuse.
If you look at the wiring diagram for the ex (or anything really) it looks like a bunch of lines going everywhere, but it's just a map. Put a map of my city in front of me in the way circuits are laid out it'd take me a minute to figure it out.
I like this kind of stuff and if I had my hands on it I'd be having a blast. This does seem like a textbook way of getting your feet wet for electrical diag.
Take a look at the wiring diagram and a chart of common symbols (https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/graphics/electrical-symbols.png), figure out where in the diagram your problem is and chase it from there.
The only thing you have to lose is time. If you think learning electrical diag is worth your time jump in. If not, wiring harnesses are available. Absolute worst case scenario you'd be replacing it anyway.

Attachments

See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 1
6
Alright, so here's what we discovered. The previous owner blew the ignition fuse and replaced it with the spare 30 amp. This caused the fuse box to burn really badly, and a wire to melt and become very exposed since the problem was never properly addressed.

Idk how I've managed to ride the bike without any electrical issues for the past few years, but here we are lol. We cut open a lot of the wrapping and the only thing that caught my grandfather's eye (other than the melted wire) was this junction:

Bird Electric blue Cable Electrical wiring Motor vehicle


He said it seems like a weird thing for Kawasaki to do, but that it looks like a factory crimp so it must be correct. He also didn't think the blue shrink wrap was factory at first, but since it was everywhere he decided that it also must be.

The wire that burnt up runs from the fuse box (Ign) to where it connects to the stop switch. The wire going into the stop switch isn't burnt. The current plan is to cut the wire on each end, attach a new one, then see if it still blows fuses or is still shorted. If either still happens and we can't fix it, then I'm tearing out the wiring harness and putting in a new one I just ordered, along with a new fuse box and petock (mine sorta broke). The bike is at 8.7k miles so I figure it's due for a valve adjustment, and if I'm going to be clearing room for that anyways, I'll just skip the troubleshooting and put a new harness in while I'm in the zone.

I asked my grandfather if the bike struggling to start but running perfectly could be a symptom of the ignition system having an issue like this, and he thinks it's likely the cause. The battery is new and never seemed like the issue when the bike was struggling to start, and there's no indication while riding that it's the carbs. I bought new spark plugs before this all happened thinking that could be it, so I'll be throwing those in as well.

I don't want to use the wrong words here, but I believe we're only running into one more issue. iirc, my grandfather said that the wire is shorted to ground no matter what we do to it, which he says shouldn't be the case. So he thinks that somewhere in the wrapping, the wire is exposed and burned itself into another one. We cut away as much wrapping as we could and couldn't find where that would be happening. The only burnt wire we found is the ignition wire. I asked him if that could mean the wire itself is just bad, and I think he was trying to say that the wire is bad because it's touching metal somewhere it's not supposed to be. So I guess we've found the victim, now we just need to find the culprit.


Gadget Gas Font Recreation Display device
Finger Electrical wiring Electronic engineering Engineering Cable
Hand Fluid Finger Gesture Thumb
Material property Electrical wiring Cable Wire Electric blue
Electrical wiring Cable Wire Electrical supply Electric blue
See less See more
hi, your grandfather seems like a wise man and has the understanding of how the electricals work, it can be difficult for the novice (use the word sparingly) to unload the complexity of the systems into their brains, but breaking it down into simple individual circuits helps isolate where the issue is.
basically the source is always the battery (which is high capacity) and the electrical current runs around different circuits with varying amounts of power, each circuit having it's own unique power flow and usage. all works well while this current is under control.
but when a problem occurs like bad connection it causes the current to build up (if you like) and not flow as it should as the path is restricted this causes heat in that system. the more restriction the more heat to the point that system overloads this is where the fuses come in the wire in the fuse is very weak much weaker than the wires it connects to so if there is say a short the fuse wire heats up melts and cuts the power to that circuit it is protecting.

now to explain as simply as possible all the fuses in the fuse box are 10amp which is much lower than the wiring used in circuits which in general are rated at 16amp considering the battery is rated at 14amps there isn't normally a problem, but if you get a bad connection or short. the whole circuit heats up this causes the fuse to blow first.

the issue on your bike started a long time ago with some bad connection this started a cascade effect on the circuits causing the fuse (in that circuit) to blow and keep blowing while the issue was there. but the PO instead of troubleshooting the issue just replaced the fuse with a bigger one (which probably also blew) until the fuse used was bigger than the circuit it was made to protect.

so now there is no safety cut off point in that system, so instead of the fuse heating up and blowing the wires themselves heated up. day by day getting worse as the overhead wires caused more resistance and more heat to the point the insulation of the wires melted and caused a major short circuit. you are very lucky something in the system broke before causing fire.

on face value the only thing you can do is as your grandfather suggests replace the whole harness and the components on that system and start afresh, that fuse box also looks toast to me.
all because some clown put a 30amp fuse in instead of tracing why the 10 amp one kept blowing.
See less See more
Yeah, he was a computer engineer for the government then Motorola (when they were good), and his best friends are some of the best mechanics in the area; so he's my go-to for this sort of stuff lol.

I'm really hoping that cutting the wire and putting a new one in (and a new fuse box) will either fix it or will allow us to trace the issue to the source, but then again these valves won't adjust themselves and this situation is just making it easier to get to them.

I had some people looking at the bike a few weeks ago that were interested in buying it, thank God none of the sales went through; I'd feel terrible if this caused a new rider to crash. The bike died on me mid-turn in the middle of an intersection, on my way to work. Absolutely wonderful experience.

I'll report back after all the parts come in and we do some more poking around.
I'm back, with news of sorts.

We ended up just cleaning the wire causing the issue and everything worked just fine.

In the process of removing the tank, I broke the fuel valve and had to replace it. Well after getting the tank back on and running the bike for a few minutes, I started smelling something I couldn't identify. Then it started smoking like crazy on the left side. The bike isn't on the center stand so while it's likely it's gas, it could be oil following gravity. There was no leaking beforehand and we haven't touched anything that would cause an oil leak, so I'm 99% sure it's gas. But I'm at work so I can't check now.

I have tomorrow off so I'll once again report back with an update when I can. It's such a nice day too :(
👃 you should be able to tell if it’s gas! 👃

If you can’t identify gasoline by smell yet, that is a core competency for working on engines! It could save you from a very expensive or painful mistake.

from what you said, it’s not unlikely that the fuel valve (petcock) had a issue and leaked gas, which became smoky/vapor when it dripped down onto your hot left exhaust pipe. Hopefully you already understand this, but if that’s what happened, that’s extremely dangerous and could have sent your whole bike, and maybe your house or garage, up in flames in an instant.

Please be careful!!!!!!!!!
remain vigilant at all times, working on motorcycles can be a very safe and relaxing activity, but you can also get seriously hurt when you least expect it. Ask your grandfather, he will agree.
!!!!!!! Especially compounded by the presence of known shorting/exposed wires on your machine that have not been replaced, and simply cleaned!!!! That could provide the spark that starts the leaky gas inferno. !!!!!
I forgot to mention that what I was smelling initially wasn't gas, it was something up front and smelled like burning plastic, but not. Honestly, only example I can give is it smells like a rice bag in a microwave, not that anyone else would know what that smells like lol.

We didn't have time to see what was leaking, we were both running late as it was. My grandfather thinks the smell upfront is nothing (it was coming and going), but it's good I was curious cause then the bike started leaking gas/oil haha. Just one thing after another.
The wire was shrink wrapped, and then dressed with this funky tubing. I'm confident the wires are protected, my grandfather pretty much worked with wires for a living lol.
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Check the ground wire that connects at the thermostat housing. See if it's burnt.
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top