Ex-500.com - The home of the Kawasaki EX500 / Ninja 500R banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
121 - 140 of 147 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
503 Posts
How much white "smoke" are we talking? Does it smell like coolant? Has the coolant level in the bottle dropped?

How much have you run it since doing the work? Will it still blow white smoke after it's up to operating temp and has been ridden a while?

As far as the running issues, it's possible the carb may not be adjusted properly.

Comparing the color of the plugs would tell you if one cylinder is pumping coolant, as one plug would be cleaner than the other.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
I read fogs post(s) a lot during the repair time, just in case I don't miss anything. Bolts are tightened at 41lbs started from 20lbs and then increasing to 30 and lastly triple checking 41 from inner to outer bolts like it is shown in manual.
Your first post states 40lbs, not 45...
Bike runs without smoke until it heats up to a working temp, then right exhaust just shoots white smoke. Amount of smoke...can't record it on my sh*tty camera, but it is like when you start a car outside in winter, not huge amount of smoke but fairly noticeable...
Plugs are matte black from rich condition, but right plug was wet when I checked it this morning after shutting off bike. From repair I rode it about 30 kilometers, can't really ride a bike when its snowy. Carbs are completely stock, new float needles, float height adjusted, at 17,5mm fuel level is at that line where bowl and body are meeting, properly synced at 3-4k rpm after warming up the bike. BTW, at 17mm fuel level rises about 2mm above that line, don't know why since needles are new and floats are not damaged, with older needles it's been worse, overflooding and leaking fuel into airbox at proper float height. Float needle seats were damaged, I polished them out and they're not leaking fuel anymore.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,554 Posts
I read fogs post(s) a lot during the repair time, just in case I don't miss anything. Bolts are tightened at 41lbs started from 20lbs and then increasing to 30 and lastly triple checking 41 from inner to outer bolts like it is shown in manual.
Your first post states 40lbs, not 45...
Bike runs without smoke until it heats up to a working temp, then right exhaust just shoots white smoke. Amount of smoke...can't record it on my sh*tty camera, but it is like when you start a car outside in winter, not huge amount of smoke but fairly noticeable...
Plugs are matte black from rich condition, but right plug was wet when I checked it this morning after shutting off bike. From repair I rode it about 30 kilometers, can't really ride a bike when its snowy. Carbs are completely stock, new float needles, float height adjusted, at 17,5mm fuel level is at that line where bowl and body are meeting, properly synced at 3-4k rpm after warming up the bike. BTW, at 17mm fuel level rises about 2mm above that line, don't know why since needles are new and floats are not damaged, with older needles it's been worse, overflooding and leaking fuel into airbox at proper float height. Float needle seats were damaged, I polished them out and they're not leaking fuel anymore.
Cylinder head warp limit 0.05mm (0.002 in) Across, front, back, diagonal.

Head bolts:
6mm dia. 7.2 ft lbs.
10mm dia. 29 ft lbs.
This from up to 2002 publication of manual.

Now, as far as carbs... rich won’t blow head gasket.
17.5mm is ball park float height. Have you wet tested on the bench?
Only way you’ll know is to bench test and set.

Cold bike, check coolant levels in radiator and expansion tank.
Warm bike, needs full temp... half the guage. 20 minutes or so of idle.
Then shut down. Let cool. Check the coolant level in radiator and expantion tank.
If level is low then you need to go back and do head gasket procedure correctly.

My mxture settings for carbs are in TASK 9.1 in the Wiki under carb maintenance.

Check tank for rust.
I do tank services, cleaning and sealing if needed.
Carb services also, Ducatiman does carb service too.

O_E_M
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,295 Posts
Discussion Starter #124
My experience with fully heat conditioned heads, that have been recently lapped, is that a increase of tightening torque is required to assure re sealing of the head to the cylinders.
My recommendations ,not a mistake

FOG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Just measured compression with brand new gauge, old gauge is defective, figured that now...here we go:

Cyl 1: no oil - 178 PSI
Cyl 1: with oil - 192 PSI

Cyl 2: no oil - 194 PSI
Cyl 2: with oil - 208 PSI

Accuracy +-1 PSI
Tested on cold engine because carbs are removed and coolant burning doesn't start until engine heats up, so this way i get more accurate PSI, but still not 100% accurate
Good thing that compression is within manual specs BUT IN MY CASE FOR COLD ENGINE, NOT HOT...and mismatch between cyls or how you call it is just right under 10% difference. Seems like pretty good number for a 18k mile bike. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but difference between oil and no oil is same, 14PSI, for both pistons, so rings should be ok since compression number is very good?!

In conclusion I would say next, and correct me again if I'm wrong :)
Waaaay rich mix, this is obvious, probably carbs need more thorough inspection, rebuild, replacement.
Quite high compression for cold engine, possible reason for blowing head gasket?!
Bad lapp job?
Just discussing here, I will take it to a mechanic in month or two since I don't have right tools and knowledge to proceed with more skilled repairs.

Here's pic of spark plugs, black as hell!!! Pistons are black too but dry, so no oil burning...
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
503 Posts
Has the coolant level dropped or raised in the overflow bottle?

I would say the carbs need to be gone through and checked/adjusted.

Typically, coolant leaking into the combustion chamber is going to "steam clean" it and the plug.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Dropped.
Carbs are clean as new, cleaned them with lots of carb cleaner and compressed air, all passages/jets and everything else is clean.
Still rich :( Float height fights with bowl fuel level. At specified 17mm fuel level is 2mm higher, at 17.8mm fuel level is right but engine almost dies on hard deceleration. New float needles. And there is that strong fuel smell that irritate eyes so much (bike is in garage) Something is definitely wrong with carbs, been that way from the first day i bought it
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,962 Posts
@MARKO500 If you still have the original pair system, you may want to disconnect the vacuum line going to the right carb, then apply vacuum to it and see if the pair valve is holding vacuum. If it is not, it would cause the bike to run rich. Worth a shot, free and easy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
I'm from EU, no PAIR on EU bikes.
Gonna take it to a quality mechanic for Kawasaki bikes soon and spend some time with him repairing bike, probably machine lapping is not up to standard as fog told me. As for a carbs i really don't know what is causing it to go rich since everything is in place and stock. Didn't check choke stuff only.

BTW there is ''double gasket''- double thickness for KLE/ER late models ('05-'07) not 100% sure if this is true, part number is different than standard gasket. Should work OK with Ninja/Vulcan models in case someone took too much material off the surface/valves touching pistons. Maybe I'll use it for reducing compression a bit if its going to do that job. fog can throw his opinion, he knows every bit of this machine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Lapping was not perfect and I've got money back for bad job and bought granite tiles. Now I'm gonna reuse old gasket. Those cheap spray can paints here are acrylic (water based) sometimes called enamel too, some of them are for high temp applications.
Enamel is Oil based paint. I have bunch of general purpose red and green enamel oil based paint at home. Can I use what I have or should I buy acrylic enamel (high temp) paint?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,295 Posts
Discussion Starter #131
Pretty much any old spray paint will be fine. The temp of that area of the head never reaches more than 200 degrees. far below any paints deterioration point.

Your rich condition may be caused by a leaking float valve. another poster here had success lapping the seat with a Q tip and abrasive compound. in anywise you not through cleaning the carbs without doing a leak test on those seats.

FOG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Took me a 2 granite tiles and almost 2 hours to make jugs flat as possible, valve compound was fine type so it took me longer to remove some material from middle part. Head was OK, just needed minimal effort.
At the end I used Polyurethane paint to coat gasket which is a bit more resistant to heat. Oil based enamel or any other oil base paint can soften up on heat so I was worried about unexpected problems with it. Now my bike is working like a champ and I can't be more happier :grin2:
Just to throw some tips.
Make sure to degrease gasket after you remove the old coating or else no paint gonna stick to it properly, I do this whenever I paint metal, but don't know if it should be done with gasket, maybe it's overkill.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Front M6 head bolt snapped. I removed valve cover just to inspect if everything is alright, and it was not :mad: By checking bolts torque after few rides, front M6 bolt behaved like it yielded. Grabbed magnet on a stick and half of it came out, it even didn't hold tight.
Can I ride the bike without this bolt? I don't have left drill nor will to buy left drill and try to extract it and do the lapping and repainting gasket again, I am at the very end of my nerves. Bolt was tightened to a manual spec, bike is running fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,295 Posts
Discussion Starter #134
You mean the white bolt in the center? that just pinches the gasket to help prevent leaks you can ride it fine , it may leak
And trow away that torque wrench, most dangerous tool in the box.
Why did you post this in the Lapping the head thread?

''FOG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
I felt like it was connected with lapping and all that stuff and I was very pissed because of this piece of cr*p. I am sorry if
question wasn't appropriate for this thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Hi guys!

Is it possible to get photos that were on the original post? Because i m not sure i understood everything (as i m not a native english speaking guy, i only learnt at school so forgive me 😟)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
If you haven’t followed my instructions to the letter in post #1bof this topic especially to increase head bolt torque to 45 lbs ft. You may need to re Lapp again
Fog
Hi FOG, on page 1 of the directions, you say torque to 40 lbs. ft., but here you say 45. Is 40 no longer sufficient?

Mine seems to be leaking again :/ plan to relap everything, but just wanna check what I should torque the head bolts back to afterwards.

Thanks FOG!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,295 Posts
Discussion Starter #139
Increase of torque proved to be necessary on used equipment . please use 45

FOG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Thanks FOG. Took cover off, retorqued to 45 ft lbs., started it up and still seeing leaks :( so new gasket on the way and plans for resurfacing in my future.

I'm getting new head gasket because the one on currently doesn't appear OEM (there is no "UP" stamped in it anywhere), and I am mistrustful of it. If it's a new gasket, should it get a layer of enamel spray paint, or is it unnecessary? I believe I saw in another post that new gaskets come painted so we don't have to, but want to confirm. I will still be lapping and setting torque to 45 ft.lbs. Wish me luck :smile2:
 
121 - 140 of 147 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top