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Discussion Starter #1



So Aprilia are launching a whole new range of bikes based on half of the RSV4 1100 engine. It displaces 660ccs and evokes the 2 stroke 250s of the 1990s to a degree. The paint job is reminiscent of the Reggiani replicas I remember so fondly.



That's where it ends though, as it is very obviously NOT a 250cc stroker. Nor is it that simple a motorcycle-which if it were, I think would attract more riders-this thing has all the electronic do dads of its bigger brothers.



Don't take my word for it though, you can read the full article here:
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2020-aprilia-rs-660-first-look


If you do take the time to read the article, please, share your thoughts......sean
 
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Damn it ... I'm a poor man with a millionaire's taste ...

I would prefer Tuono 660, but if someone wants to give me any of the two for Christmas, I swear I would not despise such a beautiful gift.
 
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That looks like a pretty serious middleweight weapon. With 100 hp from a 660 cc parallel twin, I'm curious what the dyno chart looks like.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I would prefer Tuono 660, but if someone wants to give me any of the two for Christmas, I swear I would not despise such a beautiful gift.
Scuttle butt among the Aprilia faithful is that a 660 Tuono is already in the works and will appear next fall. Maybe sooner. Aprilia doesn't tend to stick with the normal schedule of others. They've made early release of the next model year bikes before so there is a company precedent for it.



The thing about this particular model that got me is; Aprilia did not design it to be an all out track weapon like their other flagship bikes. It is, first and foremost, a street bike. It has sporting pretensions and comes equipped with ride modes for track days.



According the article, there will be a whole range of models based on the same engine. Good for them. It's like someone at Aprilia picked up on the old Honda "F" philosophy. You know, like back when Honda made a 600cc, do it all sport bike called the CBR 600 F/2/3/4?.....sean
 

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I’m really disappointed. I was looking forward to track weapon they promised at 2018 shows. Something with 100bhp weighing in around 300lbs. Now it’s only 98bhp with ~420 wet weight. An R6, CBR600RR or ZX-6R weighs slightly less with +20-30hp more power...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Now it’s only 98bhp with ~420 wet weight. An R6, CBR600RR or ZX-6R weighs slightly less with +20-30hp more power...
Yes, but you'd be racing against 650 twins, like the SV650 or possibly bikes based on the Ninja 650 parallel twin. The only way those R6, CBR or ZX6 are gonna be in the same class is as "Criples". Down one cylinder, I'm thinking those bikes are not gonna be over dogs in that class.



My thought is, the Aprilia is going to compete head to head with SV based race bikes rather than against the 4 cylinder bikes......I could be wrong though.....sean
 

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Interesting... Jordan Edginton has been kicking ass with SV650 in AFM. Wonder what he can do with lighter bike with more HP???
 

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660cc twin? Sounds like a lightweight racer... goes against Ninja 650s and Pattons at the IOM.
I don't think America is the target audience.
 

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Interesting... Jordan Edginton has been kicking ass with SV650 in AFM. Wonder what he can do with lighter bike with more HP???

The Ninja 650 is all new this year, and the Patton is getting the engine.
The SV doesn't stand a farts chance in a wind storm.




... do you guys get Pattons?
 

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We all want this or that. Too bad we do not work in Aprilia's design team! Honestly, they cannot stay in business selling track bikes. They almost went broke selling scooters, for good grief! This may prompt Yamaha to get off the dime and make a YZF-R7 out of the MT-07. Honda? They couldn't care less. They are selling everything they make that has an "H" on it.


I still want to see the bare engine, as I suspect that cash-strapped Morini is using that motor or maybe the entire bike from Aprilia. It is more than simple coincidence when two Italian companies introduce 650+/- cc parallel twin engines simultaneously.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The Ninja 650 is all new this year, and the Patton is getting the engine.
The SV doesn't stand a farts chance in a wind storm.




... do you guys get Pattons?
As we're in California, I'm pretty sure we don't get Pàton's at all in the US....just saying.....sean
 

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Discussion Starter #13
. They almost went broke selling scooters, for good grief!
Not exactly. Aprilia was the largest manufacturer of scooters in Europe at one time. Piaggio was really their only European competition. Aprilia nearly went bankrupt because the company president Ivano Beggio spent a crap ton of money to buy MotoGuzzi. He paid waaaay more than it was worth because he wanted Italy's most storied marque. Once that financial disaster became evident, Aprilia was forced to sell. To Piaggio, their long time competitor.


I still want to see the bare engine, as I suspect that cash-strapped Morini is using that motor or maybe the entire bike from Aprilia. It is more than simple coincidence when two Italian companies introduce 650+/- cc parallel twin engines simultaneously.
Quite possible they are using the same motor. O maybe not. Judging from what I've seen so far that's all rumor or myth.



Morini only debuted one bike at EICMA this year for release as a 2020 model, and it's an adventure bike version of the Corsaro 1200. Even then, actual pictures from the EICMA show are scarce.



There are a pic or two from around the web of the 1200 Adventure, but a search for a 660cc version of anything from Morini brought up nothing. I'll revisit here if I find anything more......sean
 

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I seem to recall that the scooter market in the EU took a dump about that time too. Something about regulations and taxation??? In any event, Aprilia was much kinder to Guzzi than Piaggio has been. 6 speeds, sorted F.I. better suspension and electrics.

A good move though, as the "Shiver" is almost a non-entity in the motorcycling world - very rare for an Italian bike. Too heavy, not enough power, and pricey. Not a good recipe. The 900 is better than the 750, but too little, too late I fear. The 660 will ignite interest, as Aprilia's features and pricing have been heading toward the stratosphere.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I seem to recall that the scooter market in the EU took a dump about that time too. Something about regulations and taxation??? In any event, Aprilia was much kinder to Guzzi than Piaggio has been. 6 speeds, sorted F.I. better suspension and electrics.
Yeah, there was something about that going on at the time. As I remember anyway, that was when the EU raised taxes on 2 stroke products. Aprilia at the time, produced predominantly 2 stroke scooters as wells as the RS125 and RS250 for the street.



I don't think it would have been a huge deal for Aprilia had they not dedicated so much capital to acquire MotoGuzzi. They'd already acquired Laverda just before that. Because of those acquisitions they were unable to weather the change in economic climate.

A good move though, as the "Shiver" is almost a non-entity in the motorcycling world - very rare for an Italian bike. Too heavy, not enough power, and pricey. Not a good recipe. The 900 is better than the 750, but too little, too late I fear. The 660 will ignite interest, as Aprilia's features and pricing have been heading toward the stratosphere.

I gave the Shiver a passing thought...but to me, they're too similar to a Monster...and I'd rather have a Monster. Sure, I know a few guys who bought a Shiver. I know they didn't ride the wheels off of them, the way the Monster owners I know rode theirs.



Personally, I don't like the divisions of bike "genre" that have appeared since Piaggio acquired the entire Aprilia portfolio of brands. MotoGuzzi has become only a retro style brand and Aprilia only the performance brand. Laverda has been left out of the equation. There are other brands that Aprilia acquired also that have remained buried since Piaggio took over. I understand brand positioning...but damn, the MGS01 was pretty spectacular. Too bad it was sold as track day bike only.



Aprilia has always been at the upper end of the pricing spectrum, that isn't new. When my Mille R debuted in 2000, it was priced over $18K. Similar in price to a Ducati 996 S, it's direct competition.



Going back further, I can remember seeing the RS125 Reggiani replica at Aylesbury Kawasaki in the early 90s. Keep in mind, this is a 125cc two stroke. When I asked what it was being sold for, I was told £3995.



In the early 90s, the exchange rate for the US Dollar to a pound Sterling, was $1.50 to £1. That works out to nearly $6K for a 125cc bike. IIRC, a CBR600 F3 was right around the same price in the early 90s.



Maybe that offers a tiny bit of perspective, maybe not. I just know, Aprilia was always just that little bit too much for me when I was younger. Ducati too. Now, maybe that's less of an issue on the used market for me, but the new bike market? Forget it. Still just a bit too much for me to buy new.......Ducati too........sean
 

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Tarting the Guzzis up as Italian Harleys is a profanity. No, this is not an MGS-01. It is essentially a body kit on a V10 Centauro. Tell me that it would not have sold!




 

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The new 660 is awesome, but i'd prefer a simpler version, maybe keep the ABS and sell it a couple grand cheaper and they'd have me hooked. I'm all for fuel injection, but computer controlled everything is just too much on a bike this size. When we get hover bikes i'll get on board with ride by wire technology, but til then give me a throttle cable over that wireless crap. We are getting to the point of not being able to repair this new tech without a degree in computer science.
Is that body kit above for real? It's pretty damn cool! Guzzi not producing the MGS-01 was a crime against humanity it is/was so stunning. Have always wanted to put that body on something, it's so svelte, swooping and angular at the same time... the swingarm on the Centauro looks spindly- rotor on the left- is it a shaftie?
 
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Is that body kit above for real? It's pretty damn cool! Guzzi not producing the MGS-01 was a crime against humanity it is/was so stunning. Have always wanted to put that body on something, it's so svelte, swooping and angular at the same time... the swingarm on the Centauro looks spindly- rotor on the left- is it a shaftie?
Agreed. Biggest mistake they ever made - but the timing was rather poor - change of ownership and cash flow, I would guess. All Guzzi's are shafties. An Aprilia banana swinger would complete the picture, but they never made one. I was thinking a sheet alloy "falsie" over the swingarm would at least make it look a little more MGS-01 like. But, the stock swingarms are pretty stout, being braced and cross-braced. The OEM hugger would look better and only weighs a pound or so - strangely light for a Guzzi!


Anyway, back to the 660. I still think Morini's new 6 1/2 is the same engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Anyway, back to the 660. I still think Morini's new 6 1/2 is the same engine.
Sorry, but nope. I did some research on the Morini in the last few days.



https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2019/november/new-moto-morini-2020-seiemmezzo-scrambler-x-cape

The naked Scrambler-based ‘Seiemmezzo’ (translating to ‘six-and-a-half’) and the more adventure focused ‘X-CAPE’ both use a 650cc V-twin engine that has remarkable similarities to a clone of the 650 Kawasaki motor, also being used by Chinese brand, CFMOTO.
Apparently, MotoMorini was acquired by Chinese firm Zhongneng Vehicle Group in 2018. There is your connection to CFMOTO, and where the cash came from to expand their line up.



https://www.advpulse.com/adv-news/moto-morini-x-cape-unveil/
Good story on the Xcape on ADV Pulse. Covers quite a bit more than most of the other websites I used to research what was going on with Morini.



Also has a bit more technical data on the bike specs than I found in a number of other places. Suffice it to say, it's a 650 parallel twin making much the same horsepower figures as the EX500 did 30 years ago. I'll pass, thanks.....sean
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Is that body kit above for real? It's pretty damn cool! Guzzi not producing the MGS-01 was a crime against humanity it is/was so stunning. Have always wanted to put that body on something, it's so svelte, swooping and angular at the same time... the swingarm on the Centauro looks spindly- rotor on the left- is it a shaftie?

Ghezzi and Brian.

http://www.ghezzi-brian.com/en/
They did a super-twin back in the late 1990s that was pretty cool....made it into one of the major magazines of the day.



They're on the pricier end of the spectrum but you can buy almost any later model (1200cc) MotoGuzzi from the early 2000s for nearly a song these days. It isn't hard to imagine buying a old Guzzi Billabio or Centauro for just a couple Gs and investing $4 or $5K more for the complete Supertwin or a K5 kit.



You'd have something quite rare on these shores. I priced the kits a few years back, and the body parts are not the real expensive part. The tank and wheels are. The cool thing is, Ghezzi and Brian will sell parts of the kits.



Conveniently, there are options without the tank and wheels, without just the wheels or the full Monty kit.
The pic above illustrates the difference in the Ghezzi Brian tank over the stock OEM tank. It becomes a completely different bike.



You could customize as you went along using the different levels of the kit. It would be more expensive but strung out over a couple of years, it might be more uhhhh.....easily presented to a significant other or family CFO. :grin2:
 
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