[Smoky]

Well I have a 93 ex500 and I'm having a hard time starting it. Its turning over slowly so I hooked another battery to it to boost it, and it turns over faster but not for long then the starter sounds like it disengages and is just spinning free. It really sounds like crap not really like a car starter when it does this. Any info or anyone who had this problem before I'd appreciate any input

thanks Jon.

 

[Super Sneaky Steve]

On anything that doesn't start I start with the three basic things. Spark, Compression and fuel/air.

Try pulling a plug after a few cranks. Is it wet? If yes, you have fuel.

Now put the plug on the block and watch it as you crank. Do you see spark?

Now put your finger over the hole as you crank (don't touch the plug!) do you feel compression?

 

[Smoky]

I have all of the above I'm limitting the problem to the starter or flywheel, it will only turn over once or twice before it starts spinning free. I'm going to pull the starter off and check the pinion gear and the ringgear on the flywheel whoknows maybe all i need are some shims.

 

[MrSciTrek]

I have all of the above I'm limitting the problem to the starter or flywheel, it will only turn over once or twice before it starts spinning free. I'm going to pull the starter off and check the pinion gear and the ringgear on the flywheel whoknows maybe all i need are some shims.

If it turns out that the starter is bad... be sure to "search" the site.
Seems like someone found that there's a quick description to put in a much stronger & cheaper starter.

 

[knightslugger]

I've never had my starter apart, however i know the starter is chain drven and works on a clutch like or ratchet type of engagement. almost sounds like it's stripped.

 

[Smoky]

I don't have a service manual yet so I didn't know that about it and from the noise its making it would make sense that its stripped.

 

[knightslugger]

the walking service manual FOG knows more about this than i certainly. maybe he'll walk in and tell you what's going on. I'm sure he's experienced the same thing once or twice with as many engines he's rebuilt. take off your cover and take a peak.

otherwise you can toss him a PM too. for the good of the thread though, i would like to see this problem resolved.

 

[fog]

I have all of the above I'm limitting the problem to the starter or flywheel, it will only turn over once or twice before it starts spinning free. I'm going to pull the starter off and check the pinion gear and the ringgear on the flywheel whoknows maybe all i need are some shims.

Smoky, You haven't told us enough,yet but there is no Ring gear or pinion in the starter system. It's a one way clutch and it is designed to release when the engine starts. But it doesn't make noise.
A common failure is the fracture of the weld that holds the starter drum to the flywheel.

OK a description of the starter clutch: It's chain driven from the starter motor mounted under the carbs the other end of the chain wraps around a sprocket That drives a hub with three spring loaded levers that will in gage the Flywheel when they spin out by centrifugal force and crank the engine. As soon as the engine runs faster than the starter motor they disengage.
This hub is a welded fabrication. the weld often fails.
You need to pull the left side engine cover. and then the flywheel as the stuff is on the back side of the flywheel.

The flywheel id held on by that left handed bolt in the center and its Keyed to a taper and you must have a puller to remove it.
The good news is the puller is a 18x1,5mm right hand bolt. You screw this bolt into a thread in the flywheel for that purpose till very tight. then strike the bolt with a heavy hammer. UNDER NO CIRCULSTANCES STRIKE OF PRY ON THE FLYWHEEL IT'SELF THIS WILL DISLODGE THE MAGNETS ANF TURN YOU $365,00 FLYWHEEL INTO A PAPER WEIGHT.

fog

 

[knightslugger]

i forgot all about that retarded weld.

what's the fix? A better weld?

 

[dad]

I had a problem with the starter clutch slipping that was caused by using car oil with friction modifiers. I was sure it wouldn't hurt the clutch as it had in my bigger engine bike.... and I was right. It didn't hurt the transmission clutch at all. But the starter began slipping. It would slip and then catch again harshly. I was sure that it was a mechanical problem but then weighed how the starter clutch functions, the claims for the modifiers, and decided it would be worth a try to change the oil. I had no great hopes, just figured it was worth a try before to tear into it. I changed the oil to motorcycle oil and it cleared up after several starts. That was over 10,000 miles ago. Might be worth a try... and a warning to those who get tempted to try it.

I'm old enough that I was around before this stuff was an issue. I ran MANY miles on good old engine oil like Castrol GTX and such and never had any problems. And if mileages into the 150,000+ range is any indicator, with great success. Then came the modifiers.

I still run regular old GTX in my '86 Gold Wing and have never had any problems, modifiers and all. On my CBR-1000F it caused transmission clutch problems. Thinking I understood the issue with the 1000, knowing that the engine was fairly torqey and the clutch fairly light in feel, therefore clamping force, I considered that to be an odd case with the reasons understood. Then came the EX situation. Now I just run motorcycle oil and don't have any problems. Might be worth a try... and let us know the results, please.

 

[knightslugger]

oh, so the starter clutch works like the clutch on a nitro R/C car?

 

[dad]

I think I remember correctly from the old board that the earlier years had two potential problems with the flywheels. One being the starter ring gear weld and the other being the magnets. I'm NOT perfectly clear on that and it also was just from posts I read, probably from FOG, not something I ever experienced myself. My interest was from the problem I had that I outlined above.

My problem also fit the description of a fractured weld that was catching on the irregular fractured edge.... except for how long it kept working with the same flaw. I would have expected the broken weld to catch but also to deteriorate over time and to have some other accompanying noises. My problem seemed to remain constant and had no other strange noises.

FOG, is this something you could confirm or correct?

 

[fog]

I already have, See my post above. I told Smokey that his problem was likely to be that very weld fracture you asked about. That failure is so common there should have been a factory recall on it years ago. I guess the weld last just long enough to be out of warrentee therefore who gives a $hit. Not K for sure.

FOG

 

[dad]

I already have, See my post above. I told Smokey that his problem was likely to be that very weld fracture you asked about. That failure is so common there should have been a factory recall on it years ago. I guess the weld last just long enough to be out of warrentee therefore who gives a $hit. Not K for sure.

FOG

A poorly asked question on my part. Sorry.

What I meant to be confirmed was if that was just an early years issue that was fixed on the second generation bikes, or if it's an ongoing issue? I realize his is an early one so the suggestion is good for his, but I thought it was fixed on the later ones and was wondering that, for us lurkers with the later year bikes, now that it's been brought up.

 

[fog]

Nope

FOG

 

[2001ex500]

FOG,

This topic is a little disconcerting; Thanks for making me aware of this issue. I love performance enhancing upgrades, but without reliability you have nothing (you have a sweet bike sitting by the side of the road). Especially if you consider any touring or longer distance travel. Talk of a recall makes if sound like this was not an isolated incident. Could you expound a little more about the seriousness of this issue?

Would this be worth pulling the flywheel and reinforcing the welds for peace of mind?

Is there a warning sign(like you hear this noise and know if you shut the motor down you won't have a starter to restart with)(or you better shut down or you won't have an engine)?

In an emergency if this failure occurs can the bike be driven if you, say push start it(maybe down an incline or so)?


Thanks FOG

 

[Smoky]

Well I haven't had time to mess with it but the previous owner replaced the flywheel last summer because of the magnets.

 

[fog]

Well I haven't had time to mess with it but the previous owner replaced the flywheel last summer because of the magnets.

Go here and see the sprocket gear that's the problem

http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/400_0339/starter_motor/starter_motor.cfm?man=ka&groupid=3410&parent=3280

FOG

 

[Smoky]

Hey thanks for that link those diagrams help.

 

[fog]

Whats hard to visualize is just how the system works. The small springs (3) in the diagram push gently on the three pins that keep the three rollers in contact with the hub protruding from the sprocket. when the starter motor spins the sprocket the three rollers are driven into those tapered slots that forces them to clamp the hub. Now the connection of the motor to the crank is made and the starter spins the crank. when the motor fires the three rollers are released and the starter spins free. Any time you may hit the starter when the engine is running will have no effect (no grindind noise like a car)

BTW the weld in question is on that hub to sprocket on the back side as shown in that picture.


FOG