[MrSciTrek]

Thought that this recent article might stimulate some conversation.
Might be helpful to list the particular myth when making comments.

The Deadly Dozen: 12 Motorcycle Safety Myths and Misconceptions
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/streetsurvival/dangerous_motorcycle_safety_myths/

Myth 1: Other Drivers Don't Care About Motorcyclists
Myth 2: Loud Pipes Save Lives
Myth 3: Motorcycle Helmets Break Necks
Myth 4: Helmets Block Your Ability to See or Hear Danger

Myth 5: A Helmet Won't Help in Most Crashes
Myth 6: A Helmet Will Leave You Brain Damaged in an Crash When You Would Have Simply Died
Myth 7: A Skilled Rider Should Be Able to Handle Almost Any Situation
Myth 8: If You Are Going to Crash, Lay It Down

Myth 9: One Beer Won't Hurt
Myth 10: It's Better to Stay in Your Lane than Split Lanes
Myth 11: I'm Safer on the Street than on an Interstate
Myth 12: A Skilled Rider Can Stop Better with Conventional Brakes than with Anti-Lock Brakes

 

[dad1]

Agree with the list except as noted below.

Loud pipes DO save lives, evidenced by the preponderance of straight piped Harleys at the same time that population is increasing dramatically. 8) Gotta' give that one to the pipes.

The helmet myths are THE most idiotic. I wonder if those same people have difficulty with chewing gum and walking at the same time? Maybe that should be part of the MC endorsement test.

Myth 1: Other Drivers Don't Care About Motorcyclists

Agreed at face BUT... they don't see bikes well, probably the source of the myth. Bikers need to be aware of this and ride accordingly.

Several things a rider can do to help:
Lane placement to remain in sight of mirrors, lane placement to remain visible to traffic as you are easily masked by the mass of other vehicles, don't tailgate for this reason as well as the more obvious reasons.

Myth 7: A Skilled Rider Should Be Able to Handle Almost Any Situation

Not sure why that's a myth. I would hold that to be largely true. Maybe could add that the rider should be able to read a developing situation and therefore avoid it, never having to handle it. Beyond that, better riders do handle situations better than non-skilled. Locking brakes when they shouldn't, braking at all when they shouldn't, cooly maintaining a perfect line through the tire tracks of any otherwise gravel filled corner instead of trying to brake or panicking in other ways, not target fixating, etc.

Myth 10: It's Better to Stay in Your Lane than Split Lanes

... well, when it's accepted and anticipated by other drivers and then, at a reasonable overtaking speed so situations can be dealt with. Blowing past traffic or splitting otherwise IS dangerous. Splitting to be out of the way in an odd hard braking traffic situation might be wise to avoid becoming the meat in a car sandwich (see myth 7 if you want to split hairs as well as lanes).

Myth 12: A Skilled Rider Can Stop Better with Conventional Brakes than with Anti-Lock Brakes

Don't have experience with this to agree totally but may be true. If I would have any disagreement it would likely be track but even then they may prove good, just don't know enough to say with full conviction.

 

[fog]

The 12 commandments of Harleism.
All are Myths.
All are stupidly dangerous.
All who would believe any of them true are seriously delusional.

None are worthy of further discussion.

Fog

 

[AntiAndy]

None are worthy of further discussion.

Fog

hrm, could have sworn this is a forum.

anyway,
completely agree with #1, motorcyclists own cars too, if im ever driving my car and see a bike, i will give him more then enough space to lane split/pass/to not tailgate, just cause i know how it feels when a shitty driver is infront/beside/behind you.

 

[knightslugger]

Loud pipes DO save lives, evidenced by the preponderance of straight piped Harleys at the same time that population is increasing dramatically. Gotta' give that one to the pipes.

I heavily disagree with you Dad. Loud pipes don't save lives.

 

[MrSciTrek]

Includes info up to 2004:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/motorcycle-accident-statistics.htm

Info up to 2003:
http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/1031002245.html

Older rider death rates up (more booze, less practiced?):
http://www.seniorjournal.com/NEWS/SeniorStats/4-09-02Bikes.htm

 

[dad1]

Loud pipes DO save lives, evidenced by the preponderance of straight piped Harleys at the same time that population is increasing dramatically. Gotta' give that one to the pipes.

I heavily disagree with you Dad. Loud pipes don't save lives.

So you don't think that exceeding 300,000,000 people in the US isn't directly related to the huge number of lives saved from loud pipes?! ;D I was sure that must be it. : Baby boom-boomers, I call 'em. 8)

Well, at least I can rest easier now. Ever since I first saw those stickers a decade or two ago I was pretty down on myself for what surely could only be called mass genocide, from the decades of selfishly running un-modified exhausts on my street bikes, quietly riding through neighborhoods and our city streets, leaving such carnage in my wake, slaying oh so many innocent souls. 8)

... or could it have just increased sarcasm? :-\

 

[sevencyrus]

loud pipes dont save lifes.
loud pipes do save lifes.

On that question you dont have to state an extreme of either or set some kind of standard, the fact is, if it is louder, then maybe, just maybe, that car that was about to turn without even thinking about a bike coming might hear a loud sounding machine coming his way, and maybe he will look. Maybe he wont, I think I will take my chance of having a loud pipe, you cant go wrong. Its not like having a loud pipe hurts you, it can only help. Plus, its bad ass, lol, if you have a machine that climbs up to 12K RPM, why not have it as loud as you can so you can hear that sweet high revving sound.

 

[knightslugger]

loud pipes dont save lifes.
loud pipes do save lifes.

On that question you dont have to state an extreme of either or set some kind of standard, the fact is, if it is louder, then maybe, just maybe, that car that was about to turn without even thinking about a bike coming might hear a loud sounding machine coming his way, and maybe he will look. Maybe he wont, I think I will take my chance of having a loud pipe, you cant go wrong. Its not like having a loud pipe hurts you, it can only help. Plus, its bad a$$, lol, if you have a machine that climbs up to 12K RPM, why not have it as loud as you can so you can hear that sweet high revving sound.

well, all this "maybe he will maybe he wont" is what bothers me the most. Unless your pipes face forward, you're relatively silent, regardless if what you're riding is a sportbike or a HD. This is especially true with the quiet cabin technology being put into today's modern cars. You could be right beside them and they'd never hear a thing! they could be listening to NPR and be totally engaged with the conversation and still run your ass over.

No, loud pipes by themselves don't make motorcycles any safer to be around.

 

[TDK]

In my car I never hear the loud pipes until the bike is passing me. I think by then if I was going to do something stupid in my car it would be to late for the bike.. Or the loudness may just startle the car driver and make them do something stupid.. loud pipes may help if you like to just ride around on the side of cars(I don't).. Most pipes are loud because alot of people just like the way they sound.. Wouldn't loud pipes keep you from hearing possible danger???

 

[sevencyrus]

yeah, once again. i didnt say it saved lifes. I'm saying it doesnt hurt....how hard is that to understand?

 

[MrSciTrek]

Let me ask-

1) What is the range of reactions of everyday citizens when, late at night, some car w/ a mega-watt stereo thumps by their homes?

2) Or when they're having a friendly conversation with neighbors outside... when a straight-pipe Harley blasts by?

There are reasons why communities establish "noise ordinances." People have the right to peace & quiet which disturbs no neighbor. Folks do not have the right to make unnecessary noise if it disturbs their neighbors.

Whether or not louder pipes help make people aware of a bikers presence, loud pipes do cause some folks, including law enforcement officers, to react negatively. Just like like they do to racer-boy "Fast & Furious" cars. Plus it triggers dangerous hormone-driven, agressive, territorial behavior in a few males.

So if folks want loud pipes, please don't go through neighborhoods loudly late at night or early in the morning. And watch out for those few males who will vear into your path because they want you to know that THEY have the mass advantage.

Letseenow... where did I set my Psychology Diploma I got on line? :
(It was so cool... they were on sale!!!)

 

[sevencyrus]

lol, oh brother. I love this spoiled suburb attitude. If some poser is sitting outside revving the bike for no other reason then attention, then yea, I agree, but plz, people have a right to peace and quite when im just riding on by? Lol yea right. And F the police.

 

[MrSciTrek]

lol, oh brother. I love this spoiled suburb attitude. If some poser is sitting outside revving the bike for no other reason then attention, then yea, I agree, but plz, people have a right to peace and quite when im just riding on by? Lol yea right. And F the police.

When I was in the USAF & just moved into the barracks in Upper Heyford, a couple of guys were jamming their stereo in their room. We worked different shifts. I needed to sleep so asked them to turn it down a few notches. I remember how the guy strolled out his logic... something like, "Hey, dude, chill out. You got a stereo, right? Well, we didn't tell you to turn yours down, so we don't have to turn ours down."

It didn't matter to them that I would've turned mine down had they asked, so they could sleep or read. Heck I had decent headphones & a long cord (1970's). But they applied that standard so they could crank their tunes loud & claim that was reasonable behavior. T'isn't.

When my son moved into a frat house, they had a similar kind of thinking (?): "If someone's noise is bothering you, just turn your own stereo a little louder." Though somehow different standards were applied during finals, parent visit weekend, and when the frat overseers came to inspect (when they had to fake being a fully responsible community).

The police are fellow humans whose job is to reasonably enforce the law, & they never know when somebody they stop is going to be a nut-job w/ drugs, a weapon, or a 'tude. Or they just had to clean up some awful accident, crime scene, or deal with domestic violence. So cut them some slack, they can be a bit on edge.

If someone's loud motorcycle wakes babies as they drive past, and that exhaust volume exceeds the noise ordinances, citizens complain, then it's the police officer's job to issue a ticket or warning.

Don't want the ticket? Then don't wake the babies (or shift workers, etc)... keep the exhaust noise reasonable... especially at night & early mornings.

Irritated citizens vote, & their votes can make laws stricter. You want that? Or do you insist on the right to be noisy? Whatever your age, grow up.

 

[knightslugger]

there may not be state laws specifying a db level for motorcycles, but you can bet that city ordinances have passed laws determining what is and isn't excessive noise and a disturbance of the peace.

regarding your comment about the police... That's really shameful of you to say.

 

[bitzz]

Myth 1: Other Drivers Don't Care About Motorcyclists

Other drivers don't seem to care about cars, trucks, boats, bridge abuttments...pretty well everything. Why should motorcyclists feel special?

Myth 2: Loud Pipes Save Lives

To all those that think that loud pipes DO save lives; maybe you could let the rest of the thinking world in on your thought process on HOW (Mostly so the rest of us can have a good laugh).

Myth 3: Motorcycle Helmets Break Necks

That is true. To anyone that wants to argue the point; I suggest you investigate Newton's laws of motion, paying attention to the one "Objects in motion remain in motion until acted upon by another force...."

Myth 4: Helmets Block Your Ability to See or Hear Danger

That is true. To anyone that wants to argue the point; I suggest you stick your head in a helmet and listen and look.

Myth 5: A Helmet Won't Help in Most Crashes

I aint touching that one.....

Myth 6: A Helmet Will Leave You Brain Damaged in an Crash When You Would Have Simply Died

What the hell does that mean?

Myth 7: A Skilled Rider Should Be Able to Handle Almost Any Situation

If skill comes from experience, and it does, a skilled rider should have experienced almost any situation.

Myth 8: If You Are Going to Crash, Lay It Down

Sometimes...see myth #7

Myth 9: One Beer Won't Hurt

I aint touching that one....either.


Myth 10: It's Better to Stay in Your Lane than Split Lanes

Yep, a stationary object is easier to see...then hit. Conversely if you change lanes you give other motorists the chance to get into the game.

Myth 11: I'm Safer on the Street than on an Interstate

Statistically untrue...but then to paraphrase the words of Samuel Clemens "There are lies, there are damn lies, then there are statistics.

Myth 12: A Skilled Rider Can Stop Better with Conventional Brakes than with Anti-Lock Brakes

This statement is UNTRUE until you use the ABS function. As soon as the ABS kicks in this statement is patently true. If you want to argue that point you don't understand how ABS works.
As an aside, ABS was brought to us as standard equipment on cars by the insurance industry. The insurance industry now sees this as a mistake. They got less accidents, that was the plan, BUT the average payout went up...WAY UP.

Was this list put together by someone in the advertising industry?

 

[MrSciTrek]

"Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry."
"You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
"When in doubt, tell the truth." all by Mark Twain


Some research results concerning helmets: http://www.saferoads.org/issues/fs-helmets.htm

In 1997, Arkansas and Texas repealed all-rider helmet laws. As of May 1998, helmet use fell from 97% in both states to 52% in Arkansas and 66% in Texas. Motorcycle operator fatalities increased by 21% in Arkansas and 31% in Texas. (NHTSA, 2000)

In 1992, the first year of California's all-rider motorcycle helmet law, 327 motorcyclists died in traffic crashes, compared to 512 in 1991 - a 36% reduction in fatalities in one year. Additionally, the number of hospitalized brain-injured motorcyclists fell by over 50%, from 1,258 in 1991 to 588 in 1992. (California Highway Patrol, 1999, Trauma Foundation, 2002)

After passage of Maryland's all-rider motorcycle helmet law in 1992, motorcyclist deaths dropped dramatically - 20% in 1993 and 30% from 1993-1994. (Maryland Department of Transportation)

In Oregon, there was a 33% reduction in motorcycle fatalities the year after the helmet law was re-enacted. Nebraska experienced a 32% reduction in fatalities the first year of its law. Texas experienced a 23% reduction in fatalities; Washington, a 15% reduction; California, a 37% reduction; and, Maryland, a 20% reduction. (NHTSA, 2001)

Helmets reduce the risk of death by 29% and are 67% effective in preventing brain injuries to motorcycle riders. (NHTSA, 2001)

The average hospital charge for motorcyclists with serious head injuries was found to be almost three times that of motorcyclists with mild or no head injuries, $43,214 v. $15,528. (Orsay, et al., 1994)

 

[sevencyrus]

regarding your comment about the police... That's really shameful of you to say.

Lol, why? Maybe where you experience the police, they are “good” cops, but for working people, the working class, and oppressed peoples, they are no good. I don’t want to come across as having some kind of radical position, its just the truth. Police don’t serve or protect anyone but the rich, middle and ruling class, that's their main purpose, the macro reality. Looking at the micro level, they are trained to power-trip, to have a gang mentality, and connecting with the police's macro and institutional role; to protect the interests of those who have against those who don’t, they are some of the most racists and biggest thugs out there. I can safely say with competency and justice, FTP.

But this is not a political forum, lol, so forget about it.

 

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Whenever I play Grand Theft Auto and I see a guy riding his bike. I can't help but smash into him with my car. It feels sooooooo good. Dunno why.

 

[Nick D]

Whenever I play Grand Theft Auto and I see a guy riding his bike. I can't help but smash into him with my car. It feels sooooooo good. Dunno why.

That's just sick. I think it relates to penis envy. You're just jealous that they're out riding, even if they are just an electronic creation ;D.