[nathanawille]

Hello,
I went to start my bike (1990 EX500) after a while and the starter motor made a whizzing sound. Like it wasn't quite engaging. Shortly after it started smoking pretty good up near the front of the gas tank, near the coolant fill. After a couple more times hitting the start button I found that it was coming from the wire connected to my frame (ground). The insulation was melting off and smoking. I replaced the wire and tried it again. This time it made a rapid clicking sound in my starter solenoid. I checked all the wiring from the battery through the junction box, ignition coil, start button to the starter solenoid and everything was good. When I disconnected the cable to the starter motor from the solenoid the solenoid clicked once like it should. When I put the motor starter cable back on it rapid clicks again. Definitely doesn't like the starter connected to the solenoid. Wondering if this is a definite sign that either my solenoid is bad or my starter or should I pull out my starter and test it by itself? The fuses are all good. Appreciate the help!

 

[po18guy]

How good is the battery? If it has been sitting, it may be toast.

 

[nathanawille]

Not sure on the battery. I haven't used the battery much as my bike has been out of commission pretty much since I've had the battery. If I try to start the bike and the solenoid makes the rapid clicking sound it doesn't take long for the battery to wear out; even after fully charged. I did jump the bike with a running vehicle and it still made the rapid clicking sound. I pulled the starter out and connected my bike battery straight to the starter and it ran; didn't last long (10 seconds). I put the starter on the other vehicle battery and it ran fine for a long time. The only thing I didn't try was running the starter through the solenoid while it was out of the bike. I'm just wondering if this is tied to another post I put out there where I think I have clutch drag. If there is too much resistance from the clutch when trying to start the bike could it stall out the starter? Too much amperage goin thought the solenoid?

Clutch Drag?

Hello, I have a 1990 EX500A that I rebuilt the engine on. Everything is back together but when I put the bike in neutral or pull the clutch lever in (bike is not running) and try to move the bike it moves with resistance forward. It won't move at all backwards. I can get it to 1st gear...

www.ex-500.com

I tried rocking the bike back and forth but I will try it again more aggressively tonight. Thanks for the help!!

 

[po18guy]

Not sure on the battery. I haven't used the battery much as my bike has been out of commission pretty much since I've had the battery. If I try to start the bike and the solenoid makes the rapid clicking sound it doesn't take long for the battery to wear out; even after fully charged. I did jump the bike with a running vehicle and it still made the rapid clicking sound. I pulled the starter out and connected my bike battery straight to the starter and it ran; didn't last long (10 seconds). I put the starter on the other vehicle battery and it ran fine for a long time. The only thing I didn't try was running the starter through the solenoid while it was out of the bike. I'm just wondering if this is tied to another post I put out there where I think I have clutch drag. If there is too much resistance from the clutch when trying to start the bike could it stall out the starter? Too much amperage goin thought the solenoid?

Clutch Drag?

Hello, I have a 1990 EX500A that I rebuilt the engine on. Everything is back together but when I put the bike in neutral or pull the clutch lever in (bike is not running) and try to move the bike it moves with resistance forward. It won't move at all backwards. I can get it to 1st gear...

www.ex-500.com

I tried rocking the bike back and forth but I will try it again more aggressively tonight. Thanks for the help!!

Sounds like you may need a new battery. They die quickly if not used regularly. As to rocking the bike, do it like you mean it - that is if the clutch is assembled and adjusted correctly.

 

[nathanawille]

I rocked the bike as hard as I could and it didn't break free and I am definitely not a weak guy. The bike tires are skidding for about 8 inches when rocking back and forth. I adjusted the clutch as far as it would in both spots and I still had about 1 1/4" at the end of the clutch handle before starting to engage. The handle also seems pretty hard to pull. I'm wondering if something is not right in the clutch. How far forward should the clutch lever (fork) come when pulling the handle?

Thanks again!

 

[po18guy]

Your cable could be stretched or you are missing the clutch operating rod(?).
ROD,CLUTCH 46102-1134 (46102 in the image)

 

[nathanawille]

I remember seeing the 46102 part in there. I went through a pretty in depth video (link below) to reassemble the clutch. I have the same resistance to moving back and forth in neutral than if I pull the clutch lever. Could the clutch cable still be the problem?

I know when I had the clutch plates out of the bike I could spin the engine/wheels fine. I checked the spring length like in the video and I think some of them were just slightly below 33.1mm (around 32.9mm), not sure if that make a difference. I did not measure the thickness of the clutch plates. Should I do that?

Thanks a ton for your help!

 

[po18guy]

What was the reason for the clutch work? If it was working fine, why did you dig into it? Nevertheless, something has changed. The cables stretch a certain amount, but then usually break at the sharp turn in the housing a few inches from the lever. Very mysterious - beginning with the ground wire smoke. Some bad juju there.

Internet diagnostics is zero compared to having hands on something. If we were there with you, the problem would likely be much easier to solve.

 

[yorkie]

I get the feeling something is missing, can you take a couple of shots at either end of the cable when assembled to see how much adjustment you have, you should be able to remove all cable slack using the screw on the clutch case with plenty to spare.

 

[po18guy]

OP, look at this thread. The smoking wire means that your ground wire from the battery is loose or corroded. Best to check it, clean it and tighten it.

Ignition breakdown when hot/ performance issue resolved

1st gen (89). Ive seen quite a few threads dealing with this issue but never saw a resolution that satisfied my problem. Took me a long time to figure this out. Issue: Starts good, ignition miss/power loss/stalling after 10-30 miles. Hard restart until cooled down. After replacing EVERYTHING...

www.ex-500.com

 

[nathanawille]

Yes, I replaced the ground wire, cleaned the connection and took a reading and looks good now, not smoking. It would be great to have you here to take look at it. I replaced the connecting rod; didn't need to take out the clutch but did while I was pulling everything apart.
Yorkie, I attached labeled pictures of my clutch cable positions and adjustments. Took pictures of: clutch handle in rest position (showing how far adjustment is set); clutch fork in rest position (clutch handle not pulled); clutch fork pushed so slack is taken out; clutch handle pulled to take slack out; clutch fork with clutch handle pulled.

Still seems strange that when in neutral I still have a lot of resistance from the clutch. Same resistance as when in 1st gear and clutch is pulled in.

Thanks again!

 

[yorkie]

hi, sorry for delay different time Zone (Europe) and thanks for the photos.
now it seems you may need a new clutch cable as the inner cable is too long for the outer cable there is no where near enough adjustment to take up the slack, the clutch housing point seems far too short. and the issue is the clutch is just not opening the plates enough to work correctly.
I cannot grab your photos to illustrate but I've taken some shots of the gen 1 to make a comparison with.

clutch lever out (note how much adjustment is left.

then with the lever pulled in

at the clutch case end (lever pulled)

and at rest note how long the threaded part of the adjuster is still available, far longer than yours is.

edit. one thing you could try before getting a new cable (will probably need one anyway)
is to unscrew the inner nut on the clutch case end and pull all the slack out of the cable then reset the adjustment using the outer nut only. once all the slack is out of the inner cable try pulling the lever and see if the clutch now works (with no slack in cable) if it does then a new cable should cure it. if it doesn't then something else is wrong with the mechanism.

 

[yorkie]

Still seems strange that when in neutral I still have a lot of resistance from the clutch. Same resistance as when in 1st gear and clutch is pulled in.

not sure I fully understand this part, because the pull on the lever should be no different anytime you pull it, the springs are the same rate in neutral or in gear. the only difference is when the engine is running Now you have to understand the clutch on this bike is a bit too big (it did come straight off a 900) a better design would have been less plates and more separation of the plates when operated at the lever.
this is why there is always a clunk when you first engage first gear with the engine running, because the plates stick, the clutch inner drum continues to revolve as it did while in neutral (turning the gearbox input shaft) engaging first while the shaft is spinning gives that clunk, that and the sticky plates means they have to be forced apart at the very point you select first gear.
this is also an issue when the bike has been stood awhile and the plates get really sticky sometimes you will find the clutch doesn't work at all until you break it free by placing it in gear (engine off) and rocking it back and forth until it separates and works normally.
I've nearly gone through something a few times with this when it caught me out, start it up pull clutch lever engage first and the bike sets off with the lever still pulled.

 

[nathanawille]

Thanks Yorkie, that does make sense. The point I was trying to make before was I'm not sure it is the clutch cable because when the bike is in neutral and I am not pulling the clutch lever in I get the same resistance (can move with pretty good amount of resistance forward and the tire just locks up after rolling about 6 inches) as if I am in gear and pulling the clutch lever. I did what you suggested and took all the slack out of the cable by leaving the front nut off and I got the same result. See attached photo of how far forward the clutch fork is. The photo you sent me is not nearly as far forward when you had the clutch lever pulled. I was going to pull the clutch plates out and try to start the bike (which was the original problem) anything you think I should look at while everything is apart? I can measure the free height of the springs. Can I do anything to help make the clutch plates not stick while I'm in there?

Thanks!!

 

[po18guy]

When I mentioned the ground wire, I am speaking of the negative cable on the battery. It is apparently loose or dirty at the far end, as all grounding then tried to go through the wire on the thermostat housing, and it is not intended for such a heavy load.

 

[nathanawille]

When I mentioned the ground wire, I am speaking of the negative cable on the battery. It is apparently loose or dirty at the far end, as all grounding then tried to go through the wire on the thermostat housing, and it is not intended for such a heavy load.

Gotcha, I will make sure that wire is good. Thanks

 

[nathanawille]

I drained my oil and pulled off the clutch cover. Pat number 46102 is definitely there. I tried pulling on the 46102 part with a channel locks as hard as I could it didn't even slightly budge. Not sure if that is normal but something tells me something is wrong and the plate that holds the clutch plates (13187 on diagram) is not moving when I pull the clutch lever. there is a little movement on the 16102 part without any effort, about 1/16".

 

[bpe]

I tried pulling on the 46102 part with a channel locks as hard as I could it didn't even slightly budge.

That would be difficult to pull using channel locks. It works easy with the lever because of the leverage.

I would go ahead and pull the pressure plate and clutch plates for further inspection. Before reassembly soak the friction plates in motor oil. Make sure the plates are reinstalled in the proper direction. I'll try to find a pic showing this (in case yours are already in the wrong direction by a PO). Inspect the inside of the clutch cover it's self for any damage.

 

[po18guy]

Got a Haynes manual? Will prove invaluable in helping things to go right.

 

[yorkie]

what does the lever rod #13102-1087 look like is it bent end broken off or something like that, if that bit is faulty it would set the lever too far forwards and not operate the outer spring plate.
I say that because when fitted the cable end should be pointing to left side of the starter motor yours is pointing to the right side. this suggests there is no leverage to lift the outer clutch spring housing