[Devilsfan]

I went down to "my" dealership today. Talked to many of the employees on the Z650, CB650F, Yamaha Tracer, and the Suzuki SV650. They all said they would get the Honda. So...I did!

Goodbye Versys! A great bike but the maintenance was such a PITA that I just couldn't get past the additional work required for even the simple, common things.

My sales guy at Tampa Bay Powersports walked me to the back, found a crated 2018, ripped it open.

I told him to show me some numbers. As always with him it was a one-shot deal I couldn't resist!

Just after prep:

And then mounting up for home:

A 25 mile trip home, dodging small raindrops, but she handles really nice! A lot different from the Versys but the throttle response is a little tighter on the Honda. It will take me some time to get used to the different seating position but I know there'll be modifications coming.

I'm thinking to try some risers and see how that feels. As for the seat, there is a softer spot when I moved all the way back but, I'll be looking!

Bottom line...I am HAPPY that I'm back on a Honda again!

 

[Davenay67]

That's a really smart looking ride.

Congrats!

 

[ducatiman]

Wow, nice. IMHO can't go wrong with Honda quality and reliability. The inline 4 should prove to be an awesome, quick competent dedicated, modern styled streetbike and not a quasi off/on road, SUV crossover duck billed pointy thing.

I like the styling, the engine bay is not "busy" with add-ons going up/down and sideways...no crowded "afterthoughts".

Looks like it'll accept standard handlebars? Are the old "Superbike" brand or type bars still being made? Back when, they offered various bends and rise rates to offer looks, sporty ergonomics and comfort....from flat to 3-4" rise. Was "the" first mod often made.
May be an affordable option to look into. OTOH I may be terribly dating and outing myself as the old fart basset I am.

Subscribed, I look forward to reading your experiences, insights and thoughts on it. In a mechanical sense, as well as riding impressions.

Solid decision...congrats and luck going forward.

 

[K-woppa]

Congrats!

I have a fondness for Honda as well. I've owned four of them: a Z50 as a tyke, a CM400t and two Nighthawks. To me, there's something strangely satisfying about seeing that name on the tank.

That bike looks like a lot of fun. Enjoy!

 

[ducatiman]

The more I look at it, the more I like. Bar height to seat looks like it'll yield a very comfortable riding position. Open engine bay looks like it'll shed Florida heat for you....and engine itself is artwork. Massive swingarm, giant brake discs.

Looks like its screaming for that high rear fender thing to "go away".

85 HP....top speed 120 or so....enough to get one in trouble, more than enough for a streetbike. Wet weight 461 acceptable. PGM-FI system...I'm thinking they still have the onboard computer friendly interface...if ever the FI light illuminates, simply set to service mode...count the number of blinks, refer to your service manual for info to lead you directly to problem area and possibilities. Its on my VFR and I *wish* it were on my FI Ducati, which requires cabling to external computer with special program, ugh.

This motorbike is a very smart choice, looks like a well thought out total package, leave it to Honda.

I salute you, @Devilsfan on making a wise decision.

When you're able, please post further initial riding impressions! (I'm sure you're out enjoying right now) :smile2:

 

[Devilsfan]

The more I look at it, the more I like. Bar height to seat looks like it'll yield a very comfortable riding position. Open engine bay looks like it'll shed Florida heat for you....and engine itself is artwork. Massive swingarm, giant brake discs.

Looks like its screaming for that high rear fender thing to "go away"...

HaHa!!! Surprisingly, that's what just about EVERYONE has said!!! Many of the riders immediately go to the tail tidy!

When you're able, please post further initial riding impressions! (I'm sure you're out enjoying right now) :smile2:

I took it out yesterday and rode over to meet a teacher friend for lunch. On the way to the restaurant I took a detour. There's an undeveloped housing complex going in where all the roads are paved and only a few houses on the south side. The roads have a few curves and, since there's nobody living there I can kick up the RPM'S!

Too soon to say still but after almost 100 miles on it:

1) The gearing is amazing! Honda set this up for heavy torque in EVERY gear at low RPM's. So, I went 25-30 mph in 6th gear and NO jerking or chugging!!! I will compare this to my old Versys that, when in the 2500-3500 rpm range there was always a chugging. (This has been remedied by one of my friends that own's his own ECU flashing business. I rode his flashed Versys and WOW! Total difference immediately noticed from Kawasaki's stock ECU!) Well, Honda has got this bike down!

2) Despite the low end torque when you juice the throttle it hustles! For example, 6th gear at 3500 RPM, then a twist of the throttle...you can feel a split second before the engine bites! Then off you go! With that said, for you racing riders, this may not be something you'd enjoy as I can see you wanting immediate power. I think the difference with this Honda is that once that engine hits the higher RPM's it almost begs for you to go faster, if that makes any sense.

3) The riding position is something I'm getting used to. Coming from the Versys I was always upright. The CB has me leaning a little forward and down on the bars. It's definitely not as crouched as a sports bike but I put risers on tonight. Not sure if I need the 1 1/4" rise so I may lower it to 1/2", just for that little extra lift.

4) The seat...tell me ONE BIKE you've owned that you ever were happy with the seat!!! This actually isn't too bad but, then again, I haven't been out for long enough to know for sure. I will say that there's a more comfortable spot. When I slide all the way back it feels softer.

5) Handling - I didn't want to push it too much as I'm still in the "break-in" period but going through those curves I was able to do 45 in a 15 mph "L" curve! I'll admit I was probably going beyond the comfort level but...well, y'all know! I have felt a little slide from the rear tire so I'm going to adjust the rear spring. It does feel every bump on the road so we'll see what a spring adjustment can do to remedy this.

6) Overall - I really liked my Versys but I just couldn't get it out of my head that the maintenance was such a disappointment. And the fact that I had other issues with the bike that I just don't think was acceptable from Kawasaki. (There were others on the Versys forum that had similar issues. At first I thought they were crazy...and then it was happening to my bike.) The Versys was a great bike for touring because it could handle the long, straight highways and then hop right into The Dragon. I could get over 250 miles a tank on the Versys. But it just pissed me off. So, the Honda is here. I figured this time I would get a little more of a sports bike with a taste of the more upright seating. That EX I had last summer should have never left my garage! But this Honda has just a little bit of that EX feel to it! So I like it.
Also, since this summer I'm going to stick around town, I thought maybe it's time to just get a motorcycle that suits the majority of my riding - which is local, commuting to and from work and the weekend jaunts. This Honda will cover all those bases!
Bottom line at this EARLY point on the Honda...I lose about 50 miles of travel before fill up's and won't have the luggage space. But, I'm going to order a set of the Shad hard side cases and maybe a top case. But I get the Honda quality that, in my experience, says a lot! I'm also ordering a Puig windscreen. There's just a little too much blast in the chest right now. Although the wind feels good in this Florida scorching heat I know when it cools down it will be welcoming.
Finally, I'm getting used to that front wheel. It feels like you're leaning over the front tire! (If you've sat on a GSX then that's what this Honda feels like, only a little more uprighted bars.) The EX was sporty, but the Ninja's just have a more comfortable feel - almost as if the rake is longer in the front. Maybe the risers will help some.

I'll detail more in the next few weeks...if this rain ever stops!

 

[ducatiman]

@Devilsfan from ^ pic it looks so comfy. Really tasty styling too. Did your sales guy say they were selling well? (they should be)

Anything new to report or expand upon? Neat pics?

 

[Devilsfan]

@Devilsfan from ^ pic it looks so comfy. Really tasty styling too. Did your sales guy say they were selling well? (they should be)

Anything new to report or expand upon? Neat pics?

First off, when I got to the dealership I asked where the CB was that they had there a week ago. Sold! I think youre going to see a lot more sales with the 2019 Neo Cafe's. They're sharp! And I'm trying to find one at a dealer in the 650 size. My local Honda dealership has two 1,000cc's but no one seems to have the 650's yet.


Not much to report yet due to Florida's monsoon season starting as soon as I buy the bike. And I mean it's been POURING every, single, stinking day!!!
I did get out last evening and took a 50 mile, back-roads jaunt. Figures, through many of the curves where I wanted to open it up, I get some retired guy in front of me. (Where the hell are they going at 4:30 in the afternoon on the backroads where nobody lives except farmers?!?!)

I was able to hit some decent curves and the bike handles superbly! Again, I'm sure y'all are used to this type of handling, but coming from the Versys it's so much tighter and way more flickable than I'm used to. With the EX I had that but without the power. This thing has a ton of torque and it really muscles through the curves. whereas the Versys would kind of "zip" through them, if that makes sense.

I got it up to 80 mph and I really wanted to take it faster. Too many cops made me change my mind.

Today my Puig windscreen arrived. It took me 5 minutes to mount it up but the constant rain had me sidelined. Hopefully tomorrow will allow for some riding time. I want to see how much that windscreen flows the air away from my chest. Funny thing is I was getting the wind in my chest but no helmet buffeting. I hope it's not the reverse with the screen on.

Also, I took 1/4" off the risers and it really feels "exact"!

So...maybe tomorrow I can give a little more of an update. But so far it's a cool bike and I'm glad I got it. I think back to the Versys and the biggest thing that comes at me is the weight difference. Not that the Versys was super heavy but this Honda is like a feather!

 

[Devilsfan]

Had a little over an hour this morning before the rain came back in. Shot down to another Honda dealership, south of me, as they listed a 2019 Neo Cafe 650 in their showroom. I got there and the sales guy said it was still in the crate.

My purpose is to compare the new 2019's to my 2018. According to the sales guy the Neo Cafe's are more sportier and he said they geared the engines differently. I straddled a 2019 1000 and it definitely has more of a crouched position. Granted, it is a much larger engine and, therefore, it won't feel exactly like a 650cc.

I like the new paint but not sure I like the round headlight.

Bottom line...I am really starting to enjoy mine! I was on a two-lane on each side and the traffic was pissing me off. Next thing I know I'm weaving in and out of cars like a 16 year old who just got his motorcycle license!!! > And I don't really do that!

Also noticed, when cruising at 5,000 rpm's when I juiced it as soon as it hit the 6,000 rpm in 6th gear it felt like a rubber band retracting and shot me forward! Almost as if it jumped straight out of "torque" and straight into "power". It surprised me (in a good way) so I'm learning new things on this bike.

Also, the new Puig Naked New Generation windscreen took a lot of the wind off my chest. Had a little helmet "sway" but that was only in windy spots, no buffeting that shook my vision or anything.

Stopped by Veteran's Park for a photo op:

 

[ducatiman]

I'm glad for you! An intelligent choice, obvious perfect step up for any EX owner who's got the itch. Super styling... except......for the atrocious thing hanging so far off the rear. It really looks like an afterthought, way too long. Unfortunately the Neo CR has it too. I'd be anxious to ditch that thing ASAP...I'm sure the aftermarket will soon devise and offer something with a tastier fit visually. Still, doesn't minimize the rest of the awesome bike, though.

BTW is your lighting full LED?

IF I were to pull the trigger again at my age, that '19 Neo CR in red (of course) would be right up my alley. Gotta be a ton of fun. However, that rear "thing" would likely have an immediate encounter with a hacksaw upon entry into my garage. :surprise:

All told, a very wise decision, @Devilsfan One nice motorbike.

 

[ducatiman]

this would be my itch.....with a capital B :grin2:

https://powersports.honda.com/2019/cbr650r.aspx

but is the full fairing model euro only?

 

[Devilsfan]

this would be my itch.....with a capital B :grin2:

https://powersports.honda.com/2019/cbr650r.aspx

but is the full fairing model euro only?

Nope! They uncrated one just like that when they ripped open the box on mine! :grin2:

 

[ducatiman]

Super, hey I'll have to visit my local Honda dealer to check it out further. Its bar to seat height appears to deliver a relaxed, mature but yet sporting rider stance....looks reasonable and practical, contrary to extreme supersport Ricky Racer "ass up, wrists down". I want to evaluate that further...in person, butt on seat, hands on bars.

I'm thinking this is a modern, radical continuation of refinement to the now discontinued CBR600 series....though Honda seems to be marketing it without using any connection.

Refinement being typically Honda (think the VFR750/800 series over its super long production run, up to 8th generation now)

IF I were in the new market...this a very appealing (if not top) contender.
@Devilsfan is there any reference to using the Honda PGM FI system in your manual? If as user friendly as is on my VFR....thats another feather in its cap. Very efficient, simple diagnostics when needed (but hopefully not for a long time)

Another question...basic service, oil & filter...easy?

Appreciate the dialog, thanks for your ongoing insights!

 

[ducatiman]

@Devilsfan I will move this thread from "Off topic" to "Other motorcycle talk". Just noticed.

 

[Devilsfan]

... is there any reference to using the Honda PGM FI system in your manual? If as user friendly as is on my VFR....thats another feather in its cap. Very efficient, simple diagnostics when needed (but hopefully not for a long time)

Another question...basic service, oil & filter...easy?

Appreciate the dialog, thanks for your ongoing insights!

Yes, there is mention of the PGM FI in the Owner's Manual but there's no mention of how to "use it". The manual just says if the PGM FI indicator comes on while riding you have problems! (Not quite sure what you mean or what may be the difference on your VFR.)

On the CB forum a ton of owners are going straight to the the Power Commanders. They're also liking the Akrapovic exhaust system (which is $1,000!) but these guys are buying them.

Many of the CB forum members are European. It's interesting in the difference in styles they get compared to the US models. (Everyone in the US always likes the Euro models and all the Europeans like the US models! :grin2: )


Here's a video of one of the members and his new exhaust. I'm not into all that, I'm very satisfied with the stock set-up.

 

[ducatiman]

the PGM system, on my VFR allows diagnostic utilizing the FI light as a "blinker".

Real example using PGM I recently experienced......FI light comes on during a ride. Waited till I returned home....bike off...sidestand down, turn key to "ON" (this activates the PGM system) ...count number of blinks (8) ...it'll repeat at an interval. Referring to paper factory service manual the chart lists 8 blinks as something related to the TPS..throttle position sensor. Accessing with tank lifted at front (its pivoted in rear) I removed the TPS electrical connector, sprayed both male and female with appropriate contact cleaner....used a tiny brush further cleaned the contacts (the bike is now 21 years old). I've run the bike a few hundred miles since with no further FI light illumination.

Point is...their onboard PGM system directly, effortlessly led me to the component related to some issue. Must decide repair path pending further diagnosis...but at least you are led to the area of issue.

I'd venture to say a look inside the service manual for the 650 will reveal if it is similar, if not the same user friendly interface...though yours will be modernized.

On the flipside my Ducati requires cabling to a separate computer (a dedicated laptop here) using a fairly complicated (to me at least) interface program to diagnose and interpret same. The Honda PGM so effortless in comparison.

AFA exhaust, I'd tend to leave it alone...vid example just too freakin' loud. The cop'll hear you a mile before you get there. I prefer to sneak up to (and by) him.

The last thing I want to do is screw with programming or mapping on my newer FI Duc...their forum filled with fails. No thanky.

 

[Devilsfan]

Unfortunately, and I've scoured the internet looking, there is no Service Manual printed at this time!

As of what I know now...the Owner's Manual states: "If the indicator light comes on while riding, you may have a serious problem with the PGM-FI system. Reduce speed and have your motorcycle inspected by your dealer as soon as possible."


***Actually found this! Not sure what year this is for but I assume it's the 2017 models.

SYSTEM DESCRIPTION
SELF-DIAGNOSIS SYSTEM
The PGM-FI system is equipped with the self-diagnostic system. When any abnormality occurs in the system, the ECM turns on the
MIL and stores a DTC in its erasable memory.
FAIL-SAFE FUNCTION
The PGM-FI system is provided with a fail-safe function to secure a minimum running capability even when there is trouble in the
system. When any abnormality is detected by the self-diagnosis function, running capability is maintained by pre-programed value
in the simulated program map. When any abnormality is detected in the injector, the fail-safe function stops the engine to protect it
from damage.
DTC
• The DTC is composed of a main code and a sub code and it is displayed as a hyphenated number when retrieved from the ECM
with the MCS.
The digits in front of the hyphen are the main code, they indicate the component of function failure.
The digits behind the hyphen are the sub code, they detail the specific symptom of the component or function failure.
For example, in the case of the TP sensor:
– DTC 08-1 = (TP sensor voltage) – (lower than the specified value)
– DTC 08-2 = (TP sensor voltage) – (higher than the specified value)
• The MAP, ECT, TP and IAT sensor diagnosis will be made according to the voltage output of the affected sensor.
If a failure occurs, the ECM determines the Function Failure, compares the sensor voltage output to the standard value, and
then outputs the corresponding DTC to the MCS.
For example:
– If the output voltage line on the MAP sensor is opened, the ECM detects the output voltage is about 5 V, then the DTC 1-2
(MAP sensor circuit high voltage) will be displayed.
– If the input voltage line on the TP sensor is opened, the ECM detects the output voltage is 0 V, then the DTC 8-1 (TP sensor
circuit low voltage) will be displayed.

[1]

[2]

[4] [5]
[3]

(All indicators and segments displayed)

4-6
dummyhead
PGM-FI SYSTEM
MIL BLINK PATTERN
• If the MCS is not available, DTC can be read from the ECM memory by the MIL blink pattern.
• The number of MIL blinks is the equivalent to the main code of the DTC (the sub code cannot be displayed by the MIL).
• The MIL will blink the current DTC, in case the ECM detects the problem at present, when the ignition switch is turned ON with
the engine stop switch " " or idling with the sidestand down. The MIL will stay ON when the engine speed is over 1,800 min-1
(rpm) or with the sidestand up.
• The MIL has two types of blinks, a long blink and short blink. The long blinking lasts for 1.3 seconds, the short blinking lasts for
0.3 seconds. One long blink is the equivalent of ten short blinks. For example, when two long blinks are followed by nine short
blinks, the DTC is 29 (two long blinks = 20 blinks, plus nine short blinks).
• When the ECM stores more than one DTC, the MIL will indicate them by blinking in the order from the lowest number to highest
number.
MIL CHECK
When the ignition switch is turned ON with the engine stop switch " ", the MIL will stay on for a few seconds, then go off. If the MIL
does not come on or stays on, inspect the MIL circuit (page 4-35).
CURRENT DTC/STORED DTC
The DTC is indicated in two ways according to the failure status.
• In case the ECM detects the problem at present, the MIL will start blinking as its DTC. It is possible to read out the MIL blink
pattern as the current DTC.
• In case the ECM does not detect any problem at present but has a problem stored in its memory, the MIL will not blink. If it is
necessary to retrieve the past problem, read out the stored DTC by following the DTC Readout procedure (page 4-6).

 

[ducatiman]

"If the MCS is not available, DTC can be read from the ECM memory by the MIL blink pattern."

The MCS (don't know what it actually stands for) must be their diagnostic computer based service tool, but the overall nature of the PGM system, though obviously modernized and refined from the earlier version on my VFR, does seem to utilize the same user friendly onboard diagnostic interface.

This IS a definite plus, in a longterm ownership/service sense. No outboard cables, computers or programs needed. Note this does not allow self "mapping".

Mapping, gets into the all popular Power Commander, if you are so inclined. I've got an ancient, period correct PCII for the VFR, played with it and removed it, the VFR runs so great as is in stock form, which I'd suspect you'd find same with the 650.

IMHO not even needed....I guess its a standard play toy for the "mod crowd".

Further input appreciated @Devilsfan Confirms useful PGM another checkmark in the + column for this Honda 650 series.

 

[K-woppa]

What this bike seems to me is a modern day Nighthawk. I loved my Nighthawks.

 

[Devilsfan]

IMHO not even needed....I guess its a standard play toy for the "mod crowd".

Yes, that's how I feel. I'm not going to modify the mapping in any way. So far I really like how this motorcycle rides the way it is. That said, for those that are seriously into racing, I can understand why you may want to tweak things to you're personal liking. But I have no plans on racing!

Further input appreciated @Devilsfan Confirms useful PGM another checkmark in the + column for this Honda 650 series.

Went down to the local Honda dealership this morning (not where I bought mine). They're under new ownership and they've turned into a boat dealership more than a motorcycle shop, unfortunately. They have so much overstock that you can hardly walk around their huge showroom. (Literally, you're turning sideways to get through all of the 4-wheelers and bikes as they've stocked so many boats in and around their store you can't even park there!)

Anyway, they had a brand new, 2019 CB650R sitting there!!! I jumped on it and it felt really good. More forward-leaning than my 2018 CB but it has a different seat and felt really good. Now, I pondered if I had buyer's remorse as I suppose I could have waited to grab one of these. But truthfully, I am really enjoying mine.

Some differences:

Not a fan of this circular headlight. Just looks...out of place to me. Like a cafe racer on a naked sports bike. Yeah, I know...that's why they're calling them the "Neo Cafe's"!

I do like the seat! I believe it's a two-piece but I'll have to verify. Notice the darker red/maroon color.

Here's the ABS for the front. I gotta be honest, Honda has got these brakes down. I do NOT have ABS on mine and it feels like my old CTX. I don't think you really "need" ABS, especially not on motorcycles. These brakes (manual) are so easy to feel and I have no fear of ever locking them up.

Different bars and more forward. Although it felt comfortable I think, for me, leaning that forward for a long period of time would wear on me. But the tank is longer than mine and reminded me of the difference between my old V-strom and Versys. I really liked that longer tank on the V-strom compared to the Versys. But again, this CB is a sport bike where the V-strom wasn't.

Different dash. Mine has two sides, the left showing speed and RPM's / right showing gas gauge, time, idiot lights, and mileage. This is one unit that has it all on one screen. To me, it almost makes this bike "too naked". Like the headlight, just seems like there should be something else there.

Not the greatest pics but I think this bike is going to be a winner. I'm also thinking they may refine things for their 2020 models. I'd like to see what they do next.