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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I call this the neat little voltmeter as accurate as my now obsolete Fluke 189


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The title I picked relates to the state-of-the-art digital age/ old analog meter. For the last 10 years leading meter manufacturers such as Fluke and Megger have been using both digital number and bar graph displays, there is a reason for this, more so in the more expensive meters, more expensive because they are used by professionals and need to capture problems.

So we are going to skip the steps as to how the meter functions and jump in and explain the difference, first if we were using an analog meter and had a voltage spike for less than 1 millisecond, the meter movement is a magnetic field operating on a jewel movement, it has a small mass but does require a sustained field to reach a position equal to the applied force--no need to go further. A digital meter requires very little energy to operate, can detect voltage changes in the nanoseconds, so much more accurate ( when I say nanoseconds my THS720P Tektronix scope ). With digital meters a new problem came up, measuring and displaying couldn't take place at the same measure of time, it was discovered that a bar graph could be driven directly off the voltage measurement before it went into the digital processor for the display.

Another feature cropped up, record, it too used a bar graph type display but simulated a scope waveform, the advantage of this was the time lag in converting numbers could be eliminated and an accurate measurement was retained, without going to the expense of a scope.
For all the above statements by me, I have neglected to mention that the bar graph/ displays mimicked an analog meter, left to right. So to go further, and it was purely by accident I found the neat little voltmeter, I purchased what appeared to be similar to Signal Dynamics Head-Up voltage Monitor, which in fact was garbage $40, this was purchased from a reputable motorcycle Farkle supplier.

The reason why I like it, as the voltage climbs, more LEDs come on from left to right, secondly, is the normal operating voltage range using a series regulator on the Versys is the 3 green LED's, next down is two yellow, this is the 13.3 to 13.6 VDC, these happen on when at idle with the high beam and fan on, toggle between one green and the last yellow with fan only. The reason I like this, your brain doesn't need to process what is a safe operating voltage number to continue riding. Some people may get paranoid and look at a digital display every couple of minutes, or as one member did, even though he had a heads up, he didn't notice a problem until it was too late and he needed a tow to get home.
I relate to the green 3 led's similar to traffic lights, I don't stop at each light when it is green, I keep riding, a red light is a definite stop for me when the display shows only yellow or red led's you still have about 1 hour of riding left provided your battery hasn't failed. There was some mention in a discussion, of checking every 30 minutes or every hour on a digital display, I notice a change instantly, that 30 minutes to an hour could mean having enough battery to get me 60 to 100 KM back home ( towing charges on a bike are expensive, tilt and load is generally the only way).

When I discover an awesome product I like to share this knowledge, this neat little voltmeter has 3M double-sided tape, punched out with an identical footprint, also comes with 2 threaded studs and nuts and washers, I have pressure washed this with 2000PSI, I have also checked accuracy with my Fluke 189 meter. why would you want to know 14.4*14.3*14.2*14.1*14.0*13.9*13.8*13.7*13.6*13.5*13.4*13.3*13.2*13.1*13.0*12.9* and the numbers keep going, when do you get worried? are you staring at it too much? Nothing like seeing green all the time, the occasional yellow ( like a traffic light). No eyeglasses are required to read numbers up close, the only downfall is if you are color blind, that can be overcome by placing a paint mark at the last yellow LED, anything right is thumb::thumb::thumb:


So I have two values, the lower value or first value is the voltage to turn the existing led and the second value is the threshold to turn on the next higher value. As an example, 1 green led 12.60 VDC minimum to turn on to 13.09 VDC at 13.10 a second green comes on. So here goes;

1 orange 12.10 minimum to 12.19VDC single orange
2 orange 12.20 minimum to 12.59 VDC two orange
1 green 12.60 minimum to 13.09 VDC one green
2 green 13.10 minimum to 13.49 VDC two green
3 green 13.50 to 14.50 VDC, three green around 14.7 VDC the orange to the right of the 3 green comes on flashing, above 15 volts it stays on solid.


So a Condensed summary for those less technically inclined. Green is Good That is as long as 1 green led remains illuminated, your battery will be within 95% capacity, once you go/reduce to two orange you are discharging your battery since this is current per hour going out = to voltage, it is hard to say what capacity you are losing. As an example my Versys uses a 10 amp hour battery, so the difference between what the stator puts out and what is being drawn from the battery may be for example 3 amp at 12.59 VDC the two orange or ( watts is voltage times current 12.59 X 3 amp=37.7 watts) 37.7 watt /HR, our battery is rated 10 amps X 12.9 VDC = 129 watts / HR ( baseload is between 160 and 170 watts at 14.2 VDC ) so using those values you could probably ride for 3 hours before your fuel injection and everything started shutting down.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
many sources, make sure you have the multi coloured one, they make a all green led-absolutely useless---I was unable to find this all green led, but it has a different processor in it and has in place of the orange and yellow and red, green diodes-


 

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they make a all green led-absolutely useless
note the Signal Dynamics is not "all green".

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Quite happy with the Signal Dynamics, which has served both my '95 900 Ducati for well over 10 years now and into the 4th season on my 800SS ....providing all the info needed in a very small (if not tiny) visible "package".


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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
note the Signal Dynamics is not "all green".

View attachment 56196


Quite happy with the Signal Dynamics, which has served both my '95 900 Ducati for well over 10 years now and into the 4th season on my 800SS ....providing all the info needed in a very small (if not tiny) visible "package".


View attachment 56197
150% agree. I had that on my 07.Then a company that supplies motorcycle gear, cases and other stuff carried a knock off device for $35 Canadian. It wouldn't go into the red mode unless the voltage was below 11.5 VDC , at that voltage I could be 60 KM FROM HOME.
One thing I failed to mention, almost 90% of posts I am seeing, are people pushing the USB digital voltmeter, which if you understand how they work, is just slightly better than useless.From my perspective, they are distracting and dangerous, I wear glasses, you heard the saying, KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ROAD.
The heads up was way ahead of it's time. One thing I like about my neat little voltmeter, it is both linear and precise. I paid something like $14 Canadian including shipping. And I have taken 2500 PSI to it, sort of given up trying to destroy it. In a way, comparing $$$ paid & the accuracy to my fluke 189 and $$$ for it, if just looking at VDC. Well then I paid way too much for the 189. But we know it does many more things.

FYI @ducatiman. Thanks for adding that.This thread was meant to help others with a very easy search, months or years later.
 
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I can personally recommend these fine people. All of my bikes have their product on them

 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Another popular one in the UK with auto dimming, similar to the Signal Dynamics
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programmable ,you say...THAT is pretty cool. But my fave is a simple LCD display voltmeter...lcd being "passive" display (eg-the ol' digital watches or a multimeter) versus an led which is harder to see in sunlight... and pretty cheap on ebay, etc too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I call this the neat little voltmeter as accurate as my now obsolete Fluke 189


View attachment 56181
The title I picked relates to the state-of-the-art digital age/ old analog meter. For the last 10 years leading meter manufacturers such as Fluke and Megger have been using both digital number and bar graph displays, there is a reason for this, more so in the more expensive meters, more expensive because they are used by professionals and need to capture problems.

So we are going to skip the steps as to how the meter functions and jump in and explain the difference, first if we were using an analog meter and had a voltage spike for less than 1 millisecond, the meter movement is a magnetic field operating on a jewel movement, it has a small mass but does require a sustained field to reach a position equal to the applied force--no need to go further. A digital meter requires very little energy to operate, can detect voltage changes in the nanoseconds, so much more accurate ( when I say nanoseconds my THS720P Tektronix scope ). With digital meters a new problem came up, measuring and displaying couldn't take place at the same measure of time, it was discovered that a bar graph could be driven directly off the voltage measurement before it went into the digital processor for the display.

Another feature cropped up, record, it too used a bar graph type display but simulated a scope waveform, the advantage of this was the time lag in converting numbers could be eliminated and an accurate measurement was retained, without going to the expense of a scope.
For all the above statements by me, I have neglected to mention that the bar graph/ displays mimicked an analog meter, left to right. So to go further, and it was purely by accident I found the neat little voltmeter, I purchased what appeared to be similar to Signal Dynamics Head-Up voltage Monitor, which in fact was garbage $40, this was purchased from a reputable motorcycle Farkle supplier.

The reason why I like it, as the voltage climbs, more LEDs come on from left to right, secondly, is the normal operating voltage range using a series regulator on the Versys is the 3 green LED's, next down is two yellow, this is the 13.3 to 13.6 VDC, these happen on when at idle with the high beam and fan on, toggle between one green and the last yellow with fan only. The reason I like this, your brain doesn't need to process what is a safe operating voltage number to continue riding. Some people may get paranoid and look at a digital display every couple of minutes, or as one member did, even though he had a heads up, he didn't notice a problem until it was too late and he needed a tow to get home.
I relate to the green 3 led's similar to traffic lights, I don't stop at each light when it is green, I keep riding, a red light is a definite stop for me when the display shows only yellow or red led's you still have about 1 hour of riding left provided your battery hasn't failed. There was some mention in a discussion, of checking every 30 minutes or every hour on a digital display, I notice a change instantly, that 30 minutes to an hour could mean having enough battery to get me 60 to 100 KM back home ( towing charges on a bike are expensive, tilt and load is generally the only way).

When I discover an awesome product I like to share this knowledge, this neat little voltmeter has 3M double-sided tape, punched out with an identical footprint, also comes with 2 threaded studs and nuts and washers, I have pressure washed this with 2000PSI, I have also checked accuracy with my Fluke 189 meter. why would you want to know 14.4*14.3*14.2*14.1*14.0*13.9*13.8*13.7*13.6*13.5*13.4*13.3*13.2*13.1*13.0*12.9* and the numbers keep going, when do you get worried? are you staring at it too much? Nothing like seeing green all the time, the occasional yellow ( like a traffic light). No eyeglasses are required to read numbers up close, the only downfall is if you are color blind, that can be overcome by placing a paint mark at the last yellow LED, anything right is thumb::thumb::thumb:


So I have two values, the lower value or first value is the voltage to turn the existing led and the second value is the threshold to turn on the next higher value. As an example, 1 green led 12.60 VDC minimum to turn on to 13.09 VDC at 13.10 a second green comes on. So here goes;

1 orange 12.10 minimum to 12.19VDC single orange
2 orange 12.20 minimum to 12.59 VDC two orange
1 green 12.60 minimum to 13.09 VDC one green
2 green 13.10 minimum to 13.49 VDC two green
3 green 13.50 to 14.50 VDC, three green around 14.7 VDC the orange to the right of the 3 green comes on flashing, above 15 volts it stays on solid.


So a Condensed summary for those less technically inclined. Green is Good That is as long as 1 green led remains illuminated, your battery will be within 95% capacity, once you go/reduce to two orange you are discharging your battery since this is current per hour going out = to voltage, it is hard to say what capacity you are losing. As an example my Versys uses a 10 amp hour battery, so the difference between what the stator puts out and what is being drawn from the battery may be for example 3 amp at 12.59 VDC the two orange or ( watts is voltage times current 12.59 X 3 amp=37.7 watts) 37.7 watt /HR, our battery is rated 10 amps X 12.9 VDC = 129 watts / HR ( baseload is between 160 and 170 watts at 14.2 VDC ) so using those values you could probably ride for 3 hours before your fuel injection and everything started shutting down.
@yorkie Thanks for posting, always nice to see other products on the market.

I took the liberty of copying the colour chart and find it comes close to my neat little voltmeter. However if you look at the readings, the range is linear, no programming needed and the voltages between 13.09 to 14..5 have 3 green led's The one orange at 12.59 comes close to the discharge or equal to level of the battery. The number #3 setting looks closest to what I am using. All in all a good choice and a alternative as my neat little voltmeter is becoming hard to find.
Thanks for Posting



Note that it does say programmable
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
programmable ,you say...THAT is pretty cool. But my fave is a simple LCD display voltmeter...lcd being "passive" display (eg-the ol' digital watches or a multimeter) versus an led which is harder to see in sunlight... and pretty cheap on ebay, etc too.
Well the one I have was something like $14 Canadian and came with 3M double sided tape and mounting studs -As I said I pressured washed it, it keeps on going.
 

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@yorkie Thanks for posting, always nice to see other products on the market.

I took the liberty of copying the colour chart and find it comes close to my neat little voltmeter. However if you look at the readings, the range is linear, no programming needed and the voltages between 13.09 to 14..5 have 3 green led's The one orange at 12.59 comes close to the discharge or equal to level of the battery. The number #3 setting looks closest to what I am using. All in all a good choice and a alternative as my neat little voltmeter is becoming hard to find.
Thanks for Posting
yeah programable. I have mine set on mode 4, so it's blank unless there is a problem. easier to see and notice if a issue occurs it uses no power in normal operation (although when it does the amount is insignificant) yes I know it's splitting hairs but a single LED either that changes colour or is blank seems better to recognise in the split second you have to look at it. a multi LED coloured or not is more time consuming if you get my drift, first you look at it see the lights then inevitably have to count how many are lit and what colour they are. this takes longer so you eyes are off the road longer @ 80mph that's a fair distance. and as we all know split seconds count, when out on the road.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I call this the neat little voltmeter as accurate as my now obsolete Fluke 189


View attachment 56181
The title I picked relates to the state-of-the-art digital age/ old analog meter. For the last 10 years leading meter manufacturers such as Fluke and Megger have been using both digital number and bar graph displays, there is a reason for this, more so in the more expensive meters, more expensive because they are used by professionals and need to capture problems.

So we are going to skip the steps as to how the meter functions and jump in and explain the difference, first if we were using an analog meter and had a voltage spike for less than 1 millisecond, the meter movement is a magnetic field operating on a jewel movement, it has a small mass but does require a sustained field to reach a position equal to the applied force--no need to go further. A digital meter requires very little energy to operate, can detect voltage changes in the nanoseconds, so much more accurate ( when I say nanoseconds my THS720P Tektronix scope ). With digital meters a new problem came up, measuring and displaying couldn't take place at the same measure of time, it was discovered that a bar graph could be driven directly off the voltage measurement before it went into the digital processor for the display.

Another feature cropped up, record, it too used a bar graph type display but simulated a scope waveform, the advantage of this was the time lag in converting numbers could be eliminated and an accurate measurement was retained, without going to the expense of a scope.
For all the above statements by me, I have neglected to mention that the bar graph/ displays mimicked an analog meter, left to right. So to go further, and it was purely by accident I found the neat little voltmeter, I purchased what appeared to be similar to Signal Dynamics Head-Up voltage Monitor, which in fact was garbage $40, this was purchased from a reputable motorcycle Farkle supplier.

The reason why I like it, as the voltage climbs, more LEDs come on from left to right, secondly, is the normal operating voltage range using a series regulator on the Versys is the 3 green LED's, next down is two yellow, this is the 13.3 to 13.6 VDC, these happen on when at idle with the high beam and fan on, toggle between one green and the last yellow with fan only. The reason I like this, your brain doesn't need to process what is a safe operating voltage number to continue riding. Some people may get paranoid and look at a digital display every couple of minutes, or as one member did, even though he had a heads up, he didn't notice a problem until it was too late and he needed a tow to get home.
I relate to the green 3 led's similar to traffic lights, I don't stop at each light when it is green, I keep riding, a red light is a definite stop for me when the display shows only yellow or red led's you still have about 1 hour of riding left provided your battery hasn't failed. There was some mention in a discussion, of checking every 30 minutes or every hour on a digital display, I notice a change instantly, that 30 minutes to an hour could mean having enough battery to get me 60 to 100 KM back home ( towing charges on a bike are expensive, tilt and load is generally the only way).

When I discover an awesome product I like to share this knowledge, this neat little voltmeter has 3M double-sided tape, punched out with an identical footprint, also comes with 2 threaded studs and nuts and washers, I have pressure washed this with 2000PSI, I have also checked accuracy with my Fluke 189 meter. why would you want to know 14.4*14.3*14.2*14.1*14.0*13.9*13.8*13.7*13.6*13.5*13.4*13.3*13.2*13.1*13.0*12.9* and the numbers keep going, when do you get worried? are you staring at it too much? Nothing like seeing green all the time, the occasional yellow ( like a traffic light). No eyeglasses are required to read numbers up close, the only downfall is if you are color blind, that can be overcome by placing a paint mark at the last yellow LED, anything right is thumb::thumb::thumb:


So I have two values, the lower value or first value is the voltage to turn the existing led and the second value is the threshold to turn on the next higher value. As an example, 1 green led 12.60 VDC minimum to turn on to 13.09 VDC at 13.10 a second green comes on. So here goes;

1 orange 12.10 minimum to 12.19VDC single orange
2 orange 12.20 minimum to 12.59 VDC two orange
1 green 12.60 minimum to 13.09 VDC one green
2 green 13.10 minimum to 13.49 VDC two green
3 green 13.50 to 14.50 VDC, three green around 14.7 VDC the orange to the right of the 3 green comes on flashing, above 15 volts it stays on solid.


So a Condensed summary for those less technically inclined. Green is Good That is as long as 1 green led remains illuminated, your battery will be within 95% capacity, once you go/reduce to two orange you are discharging your battery since this is current per hour going out = to voltage, it is hard to say what capacity you are losing. As an example my Versys uses a 10 amp hour battery, so the difference between what the stator puts out and what is being drawn from the battery may be for example 3 amp at 12.59 VDC the two orange or ( watts is voltage times current 12.59 X 3 amp=37.7 watts) 37.7 watt /HR, our battery is rated 10 amps X 12.9 VDC = 129 watts / HR ( baseload is between 160 and 170 watts at 14.2 VDC ) so using those values you could probably ride for 3 hours before your fuel injection and everything started shutting down.
Many of my posts are lacking key information, for those that know me, no worries, many understand what I post is accurate and there is a reason for this post. For others, you may have a difficult decision trying to decide what is good for you. And why you even need voltage / charge rate, monitoring.
First understand that most permanent magnet stators are 3 phase power. Next understand what failsafe means as applied electrically. And last use something that is reliable but requires no skill to use but is accurate.

This is what I saw in the fall or 2021 with heated gear and heated grips, over 200 KM from home--I had run non stop over 270 KM and over a period of 3.5 hours, I keyed off, took a 15 minute break.

This is what it looked like before stopping

This is after stopping for 15 minutes and starting with heated gear and grips on


And finally with the heated grips on low and my heated jacket disconnected and at above 3000 RPM


Please note from left to right all leds are of equal voltage and as voltage rises more come on. The optimum voltage range is any or all green LEDs-no counting required, note it is off to one side of the bike, day or night green is visible.

So all the various displays will work, but best explain Failsafe

The clutch switch has a normally open contact that closes when the clutch is pulled in, say the contact fails or the wire breaks, as far as the ECU is concerned the clutch is NOT pulled in. Let us use a normally closed contact, a wire break to the clutch, a wire pulled out of the clutch or a broken wire all would equal a clutch pulled in to the ECU. A second example . The kick stand, a normally closed contact when the kickstand is up-is a failsafe, a broken wire or a broken switch or bad conatct would all say the kickstand is down. If we had the kickstand close a contact when down, a broken wire, bad contact or defective switch would all be the same state as up if wired this way.

So the above mentioned position #4 would have resulted in all likely hood of a burnt stator for me and possibly a expensive tow .

3 Phase and Single Phase -Star & Delta in Reference to 12 VDC automotive systems


So Y or star connected is used primarily for higher voltages and lower currents. Delta Connected is used primarily for higher current and lower voltages. We now have the Ford truck that can power your house, think about it, 1000 watts isn't much, but at 12.9 VDC that is 78 amp- number 4 or #3 wire minimum


The early years Kawasaki used Star or Y connected stators, to explain this I need to explain power as described as watts -a watt is 1 volt at 1 amp across 1 ohm.
A Y connected 300 watt at 15 volts would be 20 amp single phase -that is A to B -open C phase-the wire gauge using Kawasaki Versys china stators Y connected is 18 gauge ( it should be 15 gauge)
Delta connected it is two 18 gauge wires out equal to 15 gauge and 20 amp would be allowable under a single phase condition A to B with a open C phase , but would eventually burn the magnet wire. The Y connected will output 20 amp on 18 gauge wire but in 2 hours time expect a burnt stator.

So position #4 as described above could very likely not have helped at all in my situation, alerting me something was wrong and to reduce load, about 120 watts- yes I had extra clothing along and put everything on, that beats walking home. That saved the day, furthermore, what is to say the device even is working in position 4, after starting up, no display and a broken wire are both equal. Their position #3 comes very close to the other monitors.

Why we need a SIMPLE voltage monitor. It happens all the time, loose connections, corroded connections, bad grounds, if caught early enough, what I did was drastically reduce load, one thing not mentioned, my bike is 100% LED -that makes a huge difference on my lights, what would normally be close to 160 watts, low and high beam, is 72 watts total, low and high combined, with double the candle power .

So a 3 phase stator, can fail fairly rapidly on a loose connection, you will only see this at low RPM and with heavy loads. In fact a looose stator connection can cause both the stator and regulator to fail, so that $14 neat little voltmeter could save you $$$$ or any of the other monitoring devices. You need to get use to what you see all the time. In my case, the cooling fan reduces the output at idle to 1 green led, in fact while waiting at a traffic light, I knock out my low beam light and can see when the fan kicks and and when it kicks out. Below 60KM/HR you are dependent on the cooling fan for water cooled motors. ( this is according to the engineer that developed Thermo_Bob)
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I I I
Automotive lighting Gauge Measuring instrument Gadget Camera accessory

I see many of these being installed, very inaccurate, distracting and not much better than nothing

This is a example similar to my neat little voltmeter, both digital and linear bar graph

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

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yes I know it's splitting hairs but a single LED either that changes colour or is blank seems better to recognise in the split second you have to look at it. a multi LED coloured or not is more time consuming if you get my drift, first you look at it see the lights then inevitably have to count how many are lit and what colour they are. this takes longer so you eyes are off the road longer @ 80mph that's a fair distance. and as we all know split seconds count, when out on the road.
THAT is an excellent point^^^ ....my LCD displays a number so I'm glancing at whether it's 14.whatever or something nasty like 12.whatever...a bit more brain involved than -"Yikes-a Light is on!" aka idiot light.

It might not be difficult to make a voltage sensitive Flashing superbright LED...and a zener diode or just diodes perhaps..to set voltage? they really are bright! I made a kickstand alarm for another bike because people tend to talk to me when I am stopped and I've forgotten to put the stand up a couple of times... and there's no way to miss it blinking )
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
THAT is an excellent point^^^ ....my LCD displays a number so I'm glancing at whether it's 14.whatever or something nasty like 12.whatever...a bit more brain involved than -"Yikes-a Light is on!" aka idiot light.

It might not be difficult to make a voltage sensitive Flashing superbright LED...and a zener diode or just diodes perhaps..to set voltage? they really are bright! I made a kickstand alarm for another bike because people tend to talk to me when I am stopped and I've forgotten to put the stand up a couple of times... and there's no way to miss it blinking )
The SparkBright has auto dimming
 
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