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Discussion Starter #1
Allright.. I've just been through the Best Engine Oil (http://www.ex-500.com/index.php/topic,290.0.html) and all posts that mentioned Rotella oil here and I am pretty much sold to it now..

I am still amazed at the knowledge held on this forum but that's another story.

My question is : I am running my bike in any temperature from 40*C (over 100*F) down to 0*C (low 30*F) and it can change a lot in a matter of hours (I leave house to go to work at 3PM and come back home around 2AM)

I would like to know, which numbers should be printed on the jug I plan to go get at Wal-Mart ?

20w-50 ?
15w-40 ?
10w-40 ?
5w-40 ?

Is it the same thing for the synthetic and the mineral oil ? <= I haven't made my mind on which yet :-\ we'll see the price difference ;)

Thanks a million.
 

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Re: I don't know nothing about the signification of the oil Numbers..

the numbers are the weight or viscosity of the oil. the higher the number, the more viscous the oil is.

the ones with 2 numbers (10w-40, 5w-20) have two viscosity ratings. the viscosity of the oil changes with temperature. the first number is cold viscosity (signified by the W which stands for winter, not weight) and the second number is hot viscosity.


At cold temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.
 

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Re: I don't know nothing about the signification of the oil Numbers..

the first numbers are the viscosity(thickness) iirc. the higher number the thicker the oil, higher weight for higher temps and vice versa. sounds like you'd do well with 10w-40, maybe 5w for canadian winter. I like 15w here in alabama because its hot all the time.
 

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Re: I don't know nothing about the signification of the oil Numbers..

damnit DK, beat me while I was half watching TV
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Re: I don't know nothing about the signification of the oil Numbers..

Jason said:
the first numbers are the viscosity(thickness) iirc. the higher number the thicker the oil, higher weight for higher temps and vice versa. sounds like you'd do well with 10w-40, maybe 5w for canadian winter. I like 15w here in alabama because its hot all the time.
Thanks youboth :)

Although 0*C (32*F) isn't winter, that's fall and spring ;D Winters can get down to -30*C or -22*F and were not adding windchill yet.. and the bike stays in the heated garage then.

The inventor of the snowmobile lived 80km (50miles) from my house :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Armand_Bombardier

http://www.fjab.qc.ca/en/content/jab/biographie1926_1938.htm < There's a video of his B7 at the bottom left and much more on the next pages



> Is 5w-40 confirmed from owners at this climate ? ..Well, 3/4 of the year ;)
 

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Why not use the oil that the manual calls for: 10/40 or 10/50 or 20/40 or 20/50 SE or SF. (From the Kawasaki factory service manual)
Is it because you think the people that wrote that manual know less about your bike than the people in this Internet bulletin board.

What your bike needs is the correct amount of clean fresh oil, with a decent additive package. IT DOES NOT NEED $30/Litre EXTRA SPECIAL ENDORSED BY SOME DOUGHHEAD SUPERBIKE RIDER SUPER DUPER RACING OIL. It needs the oil it was DESIGNED to use. To buy the extra special... YOU ARE WASTING GOOD BEER MONIES. There is NOTHING in the expensive oil that your bike needs that is not provided in any 10/40 SE or SF oil. NOTHING!

I often wonder when I read these oil threads, there is NO shortage of them, if ANY of the people spouting off about which oil to use has EVER held an EX crank or big end bearing in their hand. I have.
I also wonder if they were holding a big end or crank bearing in their hand if they would even recognize it.

I religiously use Kendall oil, for one reason and one reason only; They give me 10 cases at the beginning of the year for free. That will probably change this year, a buddy got the ELF oil distributorship here in Ontario... so now my recommendation is buy ELF oil and ELF oil only. Please help make Marek rich.

Here is an aside for you all: Viscosity is NOT a measure of how thick the liquid is, it is a measurement of how well the liquid sticks to the container. Maple syrup has a higher viscosity than gear lube. Compare the two some time.... (OH it has to be REAL maple syrup, not Aunt Jamima).
 

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You were doing so good untill you had to add that last paragraph.

Sorry Bitz

Note : Newton's theroy, or the Laminar shear of fluid between two plates. Is really the most important quality of motor oil for engine use. It is closley related to the bearing clearences in plain bearing engines (Ex 500).

Enjoy your reading

FOG


Viscoelasticity

Fluid mechanics
Fluids
Fluid statics
Fluid dynamics
Navier-Stokes equations
Viscosity
Newtonian fluids
Non-Newtonian fluids

Viscosity is a measure of the resistance of a fluid to deform under shear stress. It is commonly perceived as "thickness", or resistance to flow. Viscosity describes a fluid's internal resistance to flow and may be thought of as a measure of fluid friction. Thus, water is "thin", having a lower viscosity, while vegetable oil is "thick" having a higher viscosity. All real fluids (except superfluids) have some resistance to shear stress, but a fluid which has no resistance to shear stress is known as an ideal fluid or inviscid fluid (Symon 1971).

When looking at a value for viscosity the number that one most often sees is the coefficient of viscosity, simply put this is the ratio between the pressure exerted on the surface of a fluid, in the lateral or horizontal direction, to the change in velocity of the fluid as you move down in the fluid (this is what is referred to as a velocity gradient). For example, at "room temperature", water has a nominal viscosity of 1.0 x 10-3 Pa∙s and motor oil has a very nominal apparent viscosity of 250 x 10-3 Pa∙s. (Serway 1996, p. 440)

Contents [hide]
1 Etymology
2 Newton's theory
2.1 Measuring viscosity
2.2 Units
2.2.1 Viscosity (dynamic/absolute viscosity): η or μ
2.2.2 Kinematic viscosity: ν
2.2.3 Dynamic versus kinematic viscosity
3 Molecular origins
3.1 Gases
3.2 Liquids
4 Viscosity of materials
4.1 Viscosity of air
4.2 Viscosity of water
4.3 Viscosity of various materials
5 Can solids have a viscosity?
6 Bulk viscosity
7 Eddy viscosity
8 Fluidity
9 The linear viscous stress tensor
10 See also
11 References
12 External links



[edit] Etymology
The word "viscosity" derives from the Latin word "viscum" for mistletoe. A viscous glue was made from mistletoe berries and used for lime-twigs to catch birds.[citation needed]


[edit] Newton's theory

Laminar shear of fluid between two plates. Friction between the fluid and the moving boundaries causes the fluid to shear. The force required for this action is a measure of the fluid's viscosity. This type of flow is known as a Couette flow.
Laminar shear, the non-linear gradient, is a result of the geometry the fluid is flowing through (e.g. a pipe).In general, in any flow, layers move at different velocities and the fluid's viscosity arises from the shear stress between the layers that ultimately opposes any applied force.

Isaac Newton postulated that, for straight, parallel and uniform flow, the shear stress, τ, between layers is proportional to the velocity gradient, ∂u/∂y, in the direction perpendicular to the layers, in other words, the relative motion of the layers.

.
Here, the constant η is known as the coefficient of viscosity, the viscosity, or the dynamic viscosity. Many fluids, such as water and most gases, satisfy Newton's criterion and are known as Newtonian fluids. Non-Newtonian fluids exhibit a more complicated relationship between shear stress and velocity gradient than simple linearity.

The relationship between the shear stress and the velocity gradient can also be obtained by considering two plates closely spaced apart at a distance y, and separated by a homogeneous substance. Assuming that the plates are very large, with a large area A, such that edge effects may be ignored, and that the lower plate is fixed, let a force F be applied to the upper plate. If this force causes the substance between the plates to undergo shear flow (as opposed to just shearing elastically until the shear stress in the substance balances the applied force), the substance is called a fluid. The applied force is proportional to the area and velocity of the plate and inversely proportional to the distance between the plates. Combining these three relations results in the equation F = η(Au/y), where η is the proportionality factor called the absolute viscosity (with units Pa·s = kg/(m·s) or slugs/(ft·s)). The absolute viscosity is also known as the dynamic viscosity, and is often shortened to simply viscosity. The equation can be expressed in terms of shear stress; τ = F/A = η(u/y). The rate of shear deformation is u / y and can be also written as a shear velocity, du/dy. Hence, through this method, the relation between the shear stress and the velocity gradient can be obtained.

In many situations, we are concerned with the ratio of the viscous force to the inertial force, the latter characterised by the fluid density ρ. This ratio is characterised by the kinematic viscosity, defined as follows:

.
James Clerk Maxwell called viscosity fugitive elasticity because of the analogy that elastic deformation opposes shear stress in solids, while in viscous fluids, shear stress is opposed by rate of deformation.


[edit] Measuring viscosity
Viscosity is measured with various types of viscometer. Close temperature control of the fluid is essential to accurate.

Now I don't ever expect to have to respond to another OIL Thread.

FOG
 

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viscosity was covered in like 9th grade physical science, and 10th grade power mechanics. You would think some super duper big end bearing expert would know that. ::)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
bitzz said:
(OH it has to be REAL maple syrup, not Aunt Jamima).
He is very right about that ^ Real maple syrup is not even comparable to Aunt Jamima stuff..

Hurray for the real stuff :D

And thanks everyone for your input :)

Frog
 

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Actually it's Aunt Jemima.I hear she rides a Harley.
 

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Sorry there Fog...
That post wasn't really for you.
I was trying to make a point and I guess I "dumbed" it down a little too far (for you any way, only you it seems though). I thought "stick" was a concept that the average mentality here could grasp. ( Now explain "elasticity" to the masses)
For the rest of you that didn't get it: Whipped cream is thick, but NOT very viscous. Maple syrup is thin but fairly viscous.

But now Jason thinks I am a super duper bearing expert. I can't figure that one out as I have never in my life claimed to be an expert on anything. (You do know what an expert is don't you. An expert is someone that learns more and more about less and less, so eventually an expert knows everything about nothing).
So there Jason my suggestion to you is get out your grade three English primer, practice up on the English language, AND RE-READ MY POST. With a basic grasp of the language you will find that I don't profess to know anything other than to refer to the manual for questions on oil specifications on what oil to run in an EX500.
With a little insight into the English language you might find the INFERENCE that NONE of us here are "experts" and we should defer these questions to the "experts", the design engineers at Kawasaki, the people that wrote the Kawasaki factory service manual. If there are "super duper bearing experts" I am willing to bet they are easier to find in the Kawasaki design team than in a bulletin board on the Internet.
So Jason what is it gonna be: Are you going to practice up on your language comprehension or do you want me to re-post in words you understand.

In other words RTFM then STFU

PS: Hey Frog, an easy way to tell Canadian maple syrup from American maple syrup is ours is MORE viscous. It's GREAT to be Canadian, isn't it?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
bitzz said:
Hey Frog, an easy way to tell Canadian maple syrup from American maple syrup is ours is MORE viscous. It's GREAT to be Canadian, isn't it?
Oh you know, to me it's better to get the stuff from the tree than getting it from a factory. Whether you get it from north or south of the border is just a matter of preference ;)
 

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I don't claim to be Expert , but I do read well and have a fair to medling comand of the english language. I guess Our Canadian friends can be excused on that count, speaking that Pidgeon eng/french that they do.

FOG
 

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bitzz said:
Sorry there Fog...
That post wasn't really for you.
I was trying to make a point and I guess I "dumbed" it down a little too far (for you any way, only you it seems though). I thought "stick" was a concept that the average mentality here could grasp. ( Now explain "elasticity" to the masses)
For the rest of you that didn't get it: Whipped cream is thick, but NOT very viscous. Maple syrup is thin but fairly viscous.

But now Jason thinks I am a super duper bearing expert. I can't figure that one out as I have never in my life claimed to be an expert on anything. (You do know what an expert is don't you. An expert is someone that learns more and more about less and less, so eventually an expert knows everything about nothing).
So there Jason my suggestion to you is get out your grade three English primer, practice up on the English language, AND RE-READ MY POST. With a basic grasp of the language you will find that I don't profess to know anything other than to refer to the manual for questions on oil specifications on what oil to run in an EX500.
With a little insight into the English language you might find the INFERENCE that NONE of us here are "experts" and we should defer these questions to the "experts", the design engineers at Kawasaki, the people that wrote the Kawasaki factory service manual. If there are "super duper bearing experts" I am willing to bet they are easier to find in the Kawasaki design team than in a bulletin board on the Internet.
So Jason what is it gonna be: Are you going to practice up on your language comprehension or do you want me to re-post in words you understand.

In other words RTFM then STFU

PS: Hey Frog, an easy way to tell Canadian maple syrup from American maple syrup is ours is MORE viscous. It's GREAT to be Canadian, isn't it?
Your last 2 posts in these oil topics was about bearings, so I inferred you knew it all (since that's what the tone of the posts took) about them or you had a sexual fetish with them.
 

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Hey there Jason, you DO have a real problem with English, that much is obvious.
In my post I wrote "...the INFERENCE that NONE of us here are "experts"... (Please note the original capitalization, this was done to bring your attention to or stress, or to emphasize these words).
To which you reply "...so I inferred you knew it all ..." (I assume you can refer back to the posts for context)
It seems to me you are attempting to attach me to a group of NONE.
I am sorry but I cannot be held responsible for your your poor comprehension level of the language. If you want to make stuff up or misconstrue stuff out there in Internet land I can't see how that is my problem.

Since you have still missed my point of:
Refer to the manual for questions on oil specifications on what oil to run in an EX500. (Here I made it bold again to stress or emphasize or bring your attention to these words).
I will provide it to you in several world languages...maybe one of these is your first language...

参见指南为对油规格的问题在什么油跑在EX500
verwijs naar het handboek voor vragen over oliespecificaties op welke olie in een EX500 in werking te stellen
référez-vous au manuel pour des questions sur des caractéristiques d'huile de quelle huile à courir dans un EX500
beziehen Sie sich das auf Handbuch für Fragen über Ölspezifikationen auf, welchem Öl, zum in ein EX500 zu laufen
αναφερθείτε στο εγχειρίδιο για τις ερωτήσεις στις προδιαγραφές πετρελαίου σε ποιο πετρέλαιο να τρέξει σε ένα EX500
riferiscasi al manuale per le domande sulle specifiche dell'olio su che olio da funzionare in un EX500
EX500 かで動くべきどんなオイルをのオイルの指定の質問に関してマニュアルを参照しなさい
EX500안에 달릴 것이다 무슨 기름을에 기름 논고에 질문은 설명서를 참조하십시요
consulte ao manual para perguntas em especificações do óleo em que óleo a funcionar em um EX500
refer to руководство для вопросов на спецификациях масла на что масле, котор нужно побежать в EX500
refiera al manual para las preguntas sobre especificaciones del aceite en qué aceite a funcionar en un EX500

So Jason do you want to argue with that statement?

I don't understand why you would say my last two posts in this thread have been about bearings... let us clear that up for you Jason in real simple words that you may understand.
I asked in the first post if "...ANY of the people spouting off about which oil to use has EVER held an EX crank or big end bearing in their hand..." because a big end bearing or crankshaft bearing is where the wrong oil choice will show, and it won't show until it is too late. By the time you figure it out the motor is pooched. The only other way to tell if the oil is right is by way of oil analysis. The tranny of an EX doesn't mind SL or SM oil, neither does the cam bearings (oh yeah, an EX DOESN'T HAVE CAM BEARINGS) or followers, the clutch might slip but that is cheap and easy to fix... what's left? Big end and crank bearings!
After you have spun a couple of bearings you start to look for solutions. You are limited by the case (that Kawasaki makes), the bearings (that Kawasaki makes), the crankshaft (that Kawasaki makes), the installation and the oil. That's it.
Sorry if I am using big words that you don't understand Jason... How 'bout; If you want to talk about oil and an EX500, bearings and weak cases is what you are going to talk about, cuz that's what matters. Not brand, not dino or synth and to a limited extent viscosity. When it comes to blowing oil out of huge bearing gaps they ALL perform about the same... spent bearings and crank mains.
Nothing sexual about it. Just trying to add something objective to a largely subjective discussion.
This is what EXPERIENCE has shown. No conjecture or speculation. NO advertising (well a little, but that was tongue in cheek) That is what I was adding to the conversation;facts, reason and logic.
Does that help you understand why I asked the question? Anything else I can clear up for you? I can get MORE condescending if you wish.

I don't know about yous guys...I came here to talk about motorcycles not get into a STUPID pissing contest.
Oh and Jason I am NOT going to entertain the idea of a battle of wits with you for the simple reason that I strongly disagree with beating defenseless children (of all ages).Do you actually have anything to add to this thread besides your pedestrian sarcasm?

see I told you I could!


Let's all go back to running bean oil.
Flame on!
 

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you got me ::)
here's your medal


arguing like this isn't what this board is for, but you can feel free to PM me




/rerail

Since the manual most likely listed results from testing in a contolled factory environment, it may not include the proper oil for extreme conditions that are actually being used?
 

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"Since the manual most likely listed results from testing in a contolled factory environment, it may not include the proper oil for extreme conditions that are actually being used?"

That is taken into account.
They test the oil in controlled factory environments.
See ...all taken care of. RTFM
 

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thank you oh grand master, but I do not own the manual nor do I care to read it for I have no need to. There is a quote button by the way.
 

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Good job at blowing this whole thing out of proportion guys. pat yourselves on the back on a job well done.

Next time you want something stopped or looked into, PM Me, Royson, or the Admin and we'll take care of it.

 
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