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Discussion Starter #1
I'm having an engine issue where the thing turns over and will even fire off for a few seconds but the second you so much as touch the throttle or put any choke in it needs a good couple hours before it'll do it's few seconds of running again.

Does the main fairing have to come off to get the tank off?
Any suggestions where to start looking?

Thanks
 

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No the fairing doesn't have to come off , but you do have ta take out the two philips head screws in the rear part of the main fairing . Check your carbs and the hoses venting your tank for starters .
 

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Bad gas?
Partly plugged gas tank screen? (won't pass enough gas to keep it running)
Auxillary gas filter plugged?

Choke mechanism gone goofy...
Just brainstorming.
 

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MrSciTrek said:
Bad gas?
Partly plugged gas tank screen? (won't pass enough gas to keep it running)
Auxillary gas filter plugged?
Petcock ?
Choke mechanism gone goofy...
Just brainstorming.
Really sounds like it's dumping fuel into the carbs(flooding).JMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
All good ideas... I was in a rush when I typed that message.

It has sat for a few months without being run (I let the insurance lapse on it and was a bad owner not starting it). Maybe i'll have a little time to look at it this weekend.
 

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Did you recharge your battery?
 

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The biggest effort for the battery is to get the engine running.. Once it turns by itself, the battery gets recharged..

Since the bike starts and run a bit on it's own, I wouldn't be worried of the battery condition contributing to this problem..

To me it looks more like Lucky#13 said : too much feul going to the engine or bad fuel (it was sitting for a little while)

My guess is that changing the fuel, getting the carbs ajusted and cleaned will fix the problem. I'd change the oil at the same time though ;)
 

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A rectifier is the part that charges the battery when running, if it's broken
the battery just drains.( in a car I think it's called an alternator? )
 

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afaik, the rectifier is sitting on the alternator, converting AC to DC (the battery needs DC and alternator creates AC current)

If it is broken though, it will not let the battery be recharged.

I've heard bikes alternators to be referred as magneto.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have not recharged the battery but was using my car (running) to jump start it. That might not be providing enough juice to keep it firing, but I don't think it's the issue as it cranks over good and strong for as long as I hold the starter button down.

I'm sort of leaning towards a fuel issue. How have people drained their tanks so that when you pull the lines off of it it doesn't spray fuel all over the place? OR does the petcock come off with the tank?
 

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The cars will defenately push enough amps at your bike for it to start, the problem here isn't the battery..

The petcock is attached to the tank, you shouldn't have any trouble with that ;)
 

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aoasus said:
I have not recharged the battery but was using my car (running) to jump start it.
you'll blow your regulator out kid!

/christmas story

seriously though, IMO i dont think you should have the car running while you jump your bike. the battery has more than enough juice to get your bike going...

Jump Starting – NOT from a Running Car

Submitted by Radford, B Davis



The issue is that cars (and 'wings and a very few other bikes) have a different type of alternator than our Shadows (and most other motorcycles) have.

Basic theory idea, for those who came in late: Generators of all types make electricity by moving a magnetic field relative to a coil of wire. The stronger the magnetic field and the faster it moves, the more electricity is generated. The moving part is usually called an armature or rotor. The stationary part is called a stator.

The typical car alternator is an excited field type. The magnetic field is created by an electromagnet in the rotor. Supply voltage is controlled by the amount of current going through the electromagnet. Most big AC generators are made this way. If an external power source is applied of a higher voltage than the regulator setpoint is applied to the system, the regulator will recognize the system voltage as being above setpoint and turn the field magnet (usually rotor) off. Result: No problem, as long as the applied voltage isn't so high as to damage anything (typically 25 V or higher on a 12V system). So you can (usually) jump start a car with another car, or a GoldWing without any problems.

Now the bad news:

Most motorcycles don't use an electromagnet to create the magnetic field. Instead ,we have a drum-shaped rotor (usually on the crankshaft) with several permanent magnets placed inside (a magneto). These magnets moving past the stator coils create the electricity we need to run the lights, charge the battery, etc. But you can't change the strength of a permanent magnet. So regulating the generator output is not a straightforward issue of turning the field magnet strength up or down.

The motorcycle voltage regulators I've seen all take the approach of shunting excess generated power to ground. This has the advantage of making sure that the voltage is the same everywhere in the system, but the disadvantage of meaning that the stator is always flowing its maximum rated supply current. This, I think, is why many motorcycles have a reputation for frying stators.

So the design of one of these regulators is completely different from a cage regulator. It has a voltage detection part, like the other regulators, but the big resistor/power transistor package has to be strong enough to carry all the possible excess power generation to ground. It handles a lot more power than the car regulator has to. It generates a lot of heat as it does this, which is why the regulator on my '85 VT1100 is finned and out in the open air--to carry off the heat before it cooks something in or around the regulator. A typical bike magneto makes 30-50 amps at max power. So the regulator is designed to dissipate a maximum of about 700 watts for short periods (this would be full power and no loads on the bike--the battery and lights are all missing). In practice, this cooks the regulator pretty fast--they don't like to dissipate more than about 200 watts for any length of time.

Now consider what happens when your moto regulator is doing a good job keeping the system at a nominal 14.1 volts when running, but the battery is weak, so you have to jump-start it on cold mornings. You hook up the bike to your Toyota with a 95 amp alternator (max output about 1400 watts). The Toyota's voltage regulator keeps *its* system at a cozy 14.3 volts when the engine is running. We now have a problem.

The cage's alternator and regulator want to maintain the system at 14.3 volts. Your bike's regulator, the instant the system is turned on, is going to try to bleed off excess voltage from the system to keep it at 14.1 volts. The car's alternator is rated for 1400 watts. The bike's regulator can dissipate a maximum of 700 for (very) short periods before it cooks itself. It's a tug of war, and the bike regulator ALWAYS loses.

Moral of the story--jump-start your bike from a non-running cage. The quiescent voltage of a car (or bike) battery is in the 13.2-13.8 volt range. The only result of this is that the full output of the bike's magneto will go into the cage and moto batteries once the bike starts. This actually reduces the load on the regulator to near zero, so it's quite happy with this state of affairs.

Corrolary: Want to reduce the load on your bike's voltage regulator? Install MORE (or brighter) lights. No kidding. Since the regulator only handles power output beyond the bike's demands, installing more demands means that the regulator does less (and is happier). The stator does the same amount of work in either case, so no problem there. Be forewarned, though, that Honda didn't exactly break the bank on copper for the wire in our bikes. It's sized to work just right with no corroded connectors and the stock loads. You need to run larger/more supply wires from the battery if you intend to use significantly more power than does the stock system.
 

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A Rectifier changes the current produced from the Generator from AC to DC.
A Regulator meters the voltage output of the generator and rectifier.
 

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Take it to a shop, let someone look at it...this could be a longterm problem.
Nothing worse than getting stuck somewhere w no juice
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I was about 99% positive that it wasn't the battery, but since it was bandied about I didn't think it'd hurt to say so.
The battery is pretty flat, but that's easily attributed to sitting for 3 or so months i'd think. There is enough juice to turn the engine over a good 5-10 times but then gets drained enough to just click the solenoid.

As for getting trapped somewhere without power, as long as theres enough power coming from the bike to run itself i'm OK.
I rode this bike for 6 months without a starter! I'm DAMN good at push starting it.

I'm going to try pulling the tank on Saturday.
 

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aoasus said:
I was about 99% positive that it wasn't the battery, but since it was bandied about I didn't think it'd hurt to say so.
The battery is pretty flat, but that's easily attributed to sitting for 3 or so months i'd think. There is enough juice to turn the engine over a good 5-10 times but then gets drained enough to just click the solenoid.

As for getting trapped somewhere without power, as long as theres enough power coming from the bike to run itself i'm OK.
I rode this bike for 6 months without a starter! I'm DAMN good at push starting it.

I'm going to try pulling the tank on Saturday.
I only tried to push start mine 1 time . It was on soggy soil . Needless to say it didn't work so well . So you da man :)
 

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Knightslugger said:
A Rectifier changes the current produced from the Generator from AC to DC.
A Regulator meters the voltage output of the generator and rectifier.
i know :) i was just posting that b/c he said he was jumping his bike with the car running.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So the tank's off and as I was pulling the fuel line I noticed that the gas backflowing out of the line was rusty looking :(

Is there any recommended way of getting the tank emptied? My usual method of opening the throttle isn't going to work this time.

I'm wondering if I'll have to get it kremekoated (or however you spell that) or if a good fuel filter will be ok for a while.
I'd guess that rust like that will really screw with the jets too.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I've dumped the fuel and it's pretty nasty looking. as much as I can look inside of the tank through the filler neck it doesn't look too bad until you see down to the very bottom on both sides it's starting to flake even.

If I just pressure wash the inside with water is it going to hurt anything? Obviously it'll have to be completely dry before I can put it back on, but how do you really know if it's completely dry?
 
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