a pretty big reason that he didn't include in the video is also environmental. carbs have fuel sitting in the bowls which will evaporate and isn't great for the environment, fuel injectors are more sealed so don't have the same problem.

fuckin ethanol though

 

Guess I'll have to start the debate and rally for carbs. Sure FI is reliable, but when/if it goes wrong, fixing can be problematic in view of its interfacing with bikes other electrical entities. Carbs, OTOH, relatively simple, mechanical and self-contained. A fine tuned set of carbs can run darn well, rivaling FI and IS reliable.

10% Ethanol is not the end-all for carefully maintained carbs, not by a long shot.

 

Agreeing with DM....FI is brilliant until it's not. In other words, it works better than carbs in all ways, but when it decides to not work it's a bear to fix. That's cars and bikes in general these days compared to stuff we had in the 70's and 80's. Nicer to drive/ride but the complex electronic systems are so much harder and more expensive to fix.

 

Given the experience with carbs around here, you can't declare FI more difficult.
We constantly see post about "help my bike won't start" that boil down to plugged pilot circuit or just plain ol dirt.
Given the same expertise some have shown of carbs around here FI would be hands down the favorite.
My SL 55 AMG would not be possible with out FI.
The specific output of todays modern engines ,is largely the result of FI
FOG

 

Saw a big block carbed Chevy making 600 hp once.
That's enough for a mad max type environment imo. I'll do the NOS spray out my mouth. I ate like a whole block of cheese last night. Surely I can get some type of extra combustion with that. Haha. Jk.

Truly though, speaking of power FI is easier to achieve this.
Reliability and maintence?
I'll take carb any day.

Last thing I'd ever want is an electic car.
They wont even permit you to work on it on your own.

 

Last thing I'd ever want is an electic car.
They wont even permit you to work on it on your own.

There's a reason for that. You make a big mistake on a gasoline powered car, or even a diesel you might lose a digit, maybe two. It is highly unlikely that your heart will stop beating.

You make a big mistake on an electric car and that may just happen. In fact it may happen without any outward sign that anything horrible even occurred. You'd just keel over dead.

High voltage electricity is nothing to fool about with. Specially high voltage DC current. A Tesla Model S operates with about 375 Volts at over 700 amps. That is more than enough to kill you. By alot.

On the plus side, you never have to go to a gas station ever again....I mean, unless you need to pee or air up your tires. The newest Roadster due out next year supposedly can go 620 miles between charges.

That's more than some ICE powered cars. The technology is improving by leaps and bounds every day. Won't be long before range increases beyond 1000 miles between charges. Certainly within all of our lifetimes.

 

"
"Last thing I'd ever want is an electic car.
They wont even permit you to work on it on your own."
You don't know the half of it. My SL has been parked in front of my local MB mechanic for 2 months now waiting for him to get over a heart attack. It need a new brake Brain, which I could install ,but you need the trained MB guy with the software to re program it.
guard the software such that the next nearest guy if MB dealer 150 miles away. Car wold have to be carried there. We won't talk about the $$$,one more $

FOG

 

The old adage "you can't take it with you" holds true NO? think of all the enjoyment that car gives you! right? Its a rolling space ship, and I know spaceships having been to the "Mother-Land". kinda abstruse but you gota read between the lines sometimes right? The cats out of the bag and there is no way to go back in time. I remember the days of points and condensers and if you got stuck you had a snow balls chance in hell of getting out of it with some foil from your cigarette pack. Now the word "Retarded" is considered a "do not fly word" remember how you set a distributor? Retarded or advanced. So, my two cents on carbs vs FI , former trumps latter anyday.

 

I found a lot of things in his presentation interesting, particularly the way he built the case that there is no appreciable benefit to EFI in motorcycles, as there is in cars, except for cold starting and elevation changes.
The practical advantage is that it can deal with modern fuels better, but Ryan's conclusion is based on his assertion that you would need to clean the carburetors every 4 weeks, which we know is way out of whack. In fact, the long term fuel experiment series we've been posting here shows that ethanol infused fuel lasts longer than we thought it did.
Fortnine is based in Canada. Do they have higher ethanol content there?

 

but Ryan's conclusion is based on his assertion that you would need to clean the carburetors every 4 weeks, which we know is way out of whack

This was a weird thing to hear. Though I dont often leave a tank of gas sitting for over a couple weeks, that seems to be a short life span.

Maybe he means it BEGINS to do the solidifying in stagnant conditions around 4 weeks, but I'm obvious speculating here.

I know I've seen up to 10% ethanol here in cali.

brake Brain,

This is terrible. My honda uses a valve system to proportion the brake pressure.

You could always just cut a hole in the floorboard and stop with your feet.

 

Brak brain.

I’ll explain. The SL 55 AMG uses an electronic device to control the brakes. When you step on the pedal, all you do is compress a spring, the brain senses what you want a applies the brake for you.
sounds crazy , but it also does anti lock, and skid control. Plus a neat trick of gently appling the brakes in the fain just enough to wipe the disc dry , so you always get instant brake response.
not to mention prodiduis braking

Fog

 

 

Personally, that fort 9 guy's a tool. I watched his channel one time when I was bored and someone recommended it. He does half assed research and then concludes something beyond his actual comprehension to explain.

I have 3 carbureted bikes and 4 EFI bikes. Okay, more like 2 and half.....well, 2 1/4 carbed bikes as my EX is a basket case...only the basket is empty. Wanna know which bikes run consistently without much fuss? 3 of the 4 EFI bikes.

The 4th is a 1983 Turbo bike and it will run with fuel and a battery. I started it for the first time since the early 90s back in the early 2Ks with nothing more than that. Try that with a carbed bike.

The point is, yes EFI is more difficult to sort out when there is a problem. It is easy to F sh!t up on them too if you don't know what you're doing.

IE, by passing the mass air flow measurement sensor does not make more power due to more air entering the combustion chambers (I've witnessed this more than once).

It makes the engine run like crap because the computer goes into limp in mode. "Tweaking" the throttle position sensor does not make it quicker either and causes rich running at idle due to a reference voltage mismatch.

Again, something I've witnessed in person. I've been working on bikes and cars since the 1980s. I cut my teeth as an apprentice on early EFI. I've worked on all manner of mechanical injection systems too. Diesel, gasoline and even natural gas systems.

Some one once said, a carburetor is a barely controlled fuel leak. Well, EFI is precise as it can get. Metered precise amount of fuel, injected at precisely the correct pressure and time to ensure clean and efficient combustion.

Once you don't have a single one of those elements, it will be as difficult as any carburetor to sort out. Some times it boils down to simple stuff, like mis-routed wiring. My 996 is a glaring example of that.

Computers don't like spikes in signals, particularly reference signals. Makes them do all manner of unexplainable sh!t. Even simple computers like the 1.6M in my 996.

Bottom line is, EFI makes bikes much more easy to live with. And no, carb'd bikes are not functionally more work when used. The problems start with non-use. Not many ride every single day.

An EFI bike withstands that lack of use much better. Though they have their limits too. Injectors clog. Seals go bad and allow air past them. Throttle position sensors go bad or get worn spots in them.

On the whole though, they're easier to live with than carbs for those not entirely mechanically inclined or in tune with what their bike needs. IOW, you don't have to be a mechanic to own a bike today. That has not always been the case.

 

When it comes to buying second-hand bikes, the best thing about EFI is that most people can't tinker with it.

PS alcohol content is 5-10% in Canada. But ethanol-free is available in premium grades if wanted. I certainly don't dump my regular+ethanol every month... It's fine stored through the winter.

 

Here's a summary of my fuel system experiences.

Carb'd bikes:
2009 EX500: Clogged main jet, slow petcock.
2005 EX500 (Friend's): Clogged choke circuit.
2004 ZZR600: Carbs needed a rebuild kit.
1998 KX125 2 stroke: No issues, but it usually took a couple kicks to get going.

EFI bikes:
2009 V-Strom 650: Primary throttle plates and idle air control circuit were out of sync.
2019 KTM 450 EXC-F: In-tank fuel filter had a leak.
2015 Vulcan S: No issues.
2017 KX250F: Occasionally took a bunch of kicks to start, didn't matter if hot or cold. Didn't look into it as I sold it to buy the KTM.

So as far as my thoughts... I've had issues with both. Generally speaking, the issues with EFI bikes have been harder to diagnose but that's a small price to pay for some resistance to gumming up internally and one less control to fuss with. I like both equally (I currently own two of each) and once the initial issues are resolved, the machines typically stay healthy.

 

ILLUSTRATION: the carburetor section on my Honda VFR is three pages long, same make and model that is an FI bike has 100 pages. Do I need to say more? There is a doode at work with a brilliant M5 BMW car, its a 2017 and has 75,000 miles, he plans on trading it in when the lease is up. These cars are no different than a refrigerator now, once the warranty is up, you get rid of it. The burden of maintenance is laid on the next owner (read-sucker) in Europe, these cars that get off lease or made obsolete by the government (due to their insane emissions) end up getting shipped to some other lesser EU country, read: Slovenia, Romania, etc. Climate change is a scam to Eff the United States and screw your wallet of literal CHANGE. Eff, its so annoying. I just heard that California is going to make gasoline lawn equipment illegal to buy by 2024.

 

in Europe, these cars that get off lease or made obsolete by the government (due to their insane emissions) end up getting shipped to some other lesser EU country, read: Slovenia, Romania,

all EU states have the same Emission rules. dictated by the commission. guess why we left.
regarding EFI bikes never had one so couldn't comment how good/bad they are.

 

I've seen enough of these bikes that when they hit over 10 years old, things could get challenging regarding keeping them on the road. Price out a fuel pump for something like a 600 cc bike etc. I respect the Britons for exiting btw, I liked Boris too : )